Classic Talibon Hilt w/Atypical Blade

[RobT]

Hi All,

Well, almost classic style hilt since it doesn’t have the rattan ferrule found on classic hilts. Normally, I would say that the ferrule is just missing on my example but the part that would go under the ferrule has the same smooth finish and octagonal cross section as the rest of the hilt. That seems like an awful lot of work to go through just to be covered up with a ferrule. Also, a smooth octagonal cross section doesn’t seem to be the best design for keeping a rattan binding in place. I have looked at the area with a hand lens and can find no ghost indicating that a rattan (or metal for that matter) ferrule was ever there. The patina of the wood in the area in question matches the rest of the hilt. Could it be that this example never had a ferrule? The blade shape is clearly for a primarily slashing weapon. Would a hilt without a ferrule hold up under use?
Not that I’m complaining, because I find the blade to be exceptionally graceful and has a patina so fine that, in this rare instance, I intend to leave it as is, but I have never seen this type of blade paired with a classic talibon style hilt. Has anyone else seen one (or better yet have an example to show)? My blade has a chisel grind and measures 20.125” (about 51 cm) long. The spine is just a hair under 3/8” (about 9.53cm) thick at the hilt. No sheath,

Sincerely,
RobT

[Battara]

This is an unusual blade, but in standing with Visayan grinding. Nice hilt carving too - very traditional.

Thanks for posting this variant.

[RobT]

Battara,

Glad you like it. What I’m really wondering is, if I have to learn to weave a rattan ferrule, if perhaps this example never had a ferrule at all, or if it could possibly have had a metal ferrule. In my initial post, I gave reasons pro and con for the existence of a ferrule but I forgot one reason for there having been one at some time. That long, featureless octagonal area makes the hilt look slightly unbalanced. Hopefully others will weigh in on this matter.

Sincerely,
RobT

[xasterix]

Originally Posted by RobT

Hi All,

Well, almost classic style hilt since it doesn’t have the rattan ferrule found on classic hilts. Normally, I would say that the ferrule is just missing on my example but the part that would go under the ferrule has the same smooth finish and octagonal cross section as the rest of the hilt. That seems like an awful lot of work to go through just to be covered up with a ferrule. Also, a smooth octagonal cross section doesn’t seem to be the best design for keeping a rattan binding in place. I have looked at the area with a hand lens and can find no ghost indicating that a rattan (or metal for that matter) ferrule was ever there. The patina of the wood in the area in question matches the rest of the hilt. Could it be that this example never had a ferrule? The blade shape is clearly for a primarily slashing weapon. Would a hilt without a ferrule hold up under use?
Not that I’m complaining, because I find the blade to be exceptionally graceful and has a patina so fine that, in this rare instance, I intend to leave it as is, but I have never seen this type of blade paired with a classic talibon style hilt. Has anyone else seen one (or better yet have an example to show)? My blade has a chisel grind and measures 20.125” (about 51 cm) long. The spine is just a hair under 3/8” (about 9.53cm) thick at the hilt. No sheath,

Sincerely,
RobT

Really nice sundang! I believe that one comes from Leyte, likely late 1800s.

I vote to leave the "absent" ferrule as is

[RobT]

Xasterix,

You say it’s a really nice sundang. I am happy to agree with you that it is really nice and am glad you like it but could you explain to me why it’s a sundang rather than a talibon. I was basing my ID on the hilt but, if it’s an entirely different piece altogether, then my question as to whether or not it had a ferrule has to be based on what it actually is and whether sundangs always had ferrules (hopefully they didn’t because I would prefer not to have to make one…especially a rattan one).

Sincerely,
RobT

[xasterix]

Originally Posted by RobT

Xasterix,

You say it’s a really nice sundang. I am happy to agree with you that it is really nice and am glad you like it but could you explain to me why it’s a sundang rather than a talibon. I was basing my ID on the hilt but, if it’s an entirely different piece altogether, then my question as to whether or not it had a ferrule has to be based on what it actually is and whether sundangs always had ferrules (hopefully they didn’t because I would prefer not to have to make one…especially a rattan one).

Sincerely,
RobT

Halloo sir! It's part of the "name game" as others in this forum have noted before.

In the area where that blade came from (Leyte/Samar), "sundang" is a catch-all term for long fighting blades. In other Visayan areas, it's a general term for blades. In Mindanao and Sulu areas, it can refer to various blade species, but in pre-war times the term usually referred to kris or kalis (keris sundang, kris sundang, etc).

"Talibon" was a catch-all term used by the Spanish pre-1900 to refer to long or heavy war blades used by the natives located in Luzon and Visayas. The word has since been absorbed by Visayan-based natives and converted to "talibong," which refers to a fighting blade; the well-polished fighting blades are alternatively called "pinuti."

If I were to be highly specific about your blade, I would label it as a Pulahan "garab" with a tip-belly blade profile (as opposed to the usual ones whose bellies are nearer to the middle).

[Rafngard]

Originally Posted by xasterix

In the area where that blade came from (Leyte/Samar), "sundang" is a catch-all term for long fighting blades. In other Visayan areas, it's a general term for blades. In Mindanao and Sulu areas, it can refer to various blade species, but in pre-war times the term usually referred to kris or kalis (keris sundang, kris sundang, etc).

Just to add to that, in the Waray-Waray speaking parts of Leyte/Samar that I visited last year (Specifically Carigara, Tacloban, Basay, and Santa Rita) people seemed to use the word "Sundang" in same way a Tagalog speaker would use "Bolo," as kind of a general term for blade. We talked to two different blade smiths (one in Carigara and one in Santa Rita) and this seemed to be the case.

I wish we'd bothered to ask Cebuano speakers, but alas, we did not.
Next trip.

Have fun,
Leif