Searching For Info On Jaeger Gun-maker, HITLLNGER FN STOCKERAV

dana_w · 23rd October 2019, 03:22 PM

Yesterday I started photographing and researching this flintlock hunting rifle (Jaeger). Could someone with a copy of Der Neue Stockel check and see if this maker is listed? Thanks!

HITLLNGER FN STOCKERAV

STOCKERAV may be Stockerau, a Town in Austria.

corrado26 · 23rd October 2019, 05:01 PM

Here is what Stoeckl says:

dana_w · 23rd October 2019, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corrado26

Here is what Stoeckl says:

Thanks so much corrado26!!!

Here are a few more shots.

dana_w · 23rd October 2019, 08:28 PM

This additional mark is on the stock under the patchbox cover.

corrado26 · 24th October 2019, 10:52 AM

The sign ofer the "MA" might be a cannon. The "MA" could stand for "Miliär-Arsenal N°1240"

dana_w · 24th October 2019, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corrado26

The sign ofer the "MA" might be a cannon. The "MA" could stand for "Miliär-Arsenal N°1240"

It certainly does look like a cannon and some type of inventory mark.

dana_w · 24th October 2019, 10:18 PM

I'd all so love to learn something about the unusual screwless lock mechanism.

Fernando K · 24th October 2019, 11:16 PM

Hello

In any case, punching with M A 1 2 4 0 seems to be very recent. The alignment of the numbers is perfect. It looks like a unique punch and I don't think it's a punch from a modern military arsenal. Less than an old arsenal. Will it be a collection number?

Affectionately

dana_w · 24th October 2019, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fernando K

Hello

In any case, punching with M A 1 2 4 0 seems to be very recent. The alignment of the numbers is perfect. It looks like a unique punch and I don't think it's a punch from a modern military arsenal. Less than an old arsenal. Will it be a collection number?

Affectionately

That's a good point Fernando.

fernando · 25th October 2019, 11:27 AM

Easy to agree that the marks by the patch box are not those of an arsenal; this is a non military gun, but a hunting one, plate decoratins and all.
In my view also hardly a collection number; with such four digits, what kind of large collection would it be ?

fernando · 25th October 2019, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dana_w

I'd all so love to learn something about the unusual screwless lock mechanism.

I am not certain what you mean by that, Dana but, this reminds of a gun i was once shown by Rainer Dehnhardt, in that there was no externl screws to dismount the lock plate. After a long night trying to crack the riddle, he had the idea to lurk into the ramrod cavity wirh a flash light ... and bingo; there by the bottom was a 'button' to be pressed to open the mechanism.

corrado26 · 25th October 2019, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

Easy to agree that the marks by the patch box are not those of an arsenal; this is a non military gun, but a hunting one, plate decoratins and all.
In my view also hardly a collection number; with such four digits, what kind of large collection would it be ?

Private weapons in public military collections are absolutely no rarity, In my long time as a member of a stately German military museum I know that it has been normal use in former times to donate all weapons of a dead officer to the military museum, as long as the widow or the children had no other application for them. As a donation these arms had to be inventarized as all other guns, swords etc. were they civilian or military

And because of the four digits: The inventory numbers in our museum had six digits
corrado26

fernando · 25th October 2019, 01:59 PM

A good point, Udo !
In such perspective, i know of a fine private collection that was donated to the local Oporto Military museu. Actually i know the person who was called to inventory it. Four digits were enough, though; this is a relatively small museum.

Fernando K · 26th October 2019, 03:19 PM

Hello

If as Corrado says above the letters and numbers there is a cannon, the letters M A would correspond to! Artillery Museum ....

Affectionately

corrado26 · 26th October 2019, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fernando K

Hello

If as Corrado says above the letters and numbers there is a cannon, the letters M A would correspond to! Artillery Museum ....

Affectionately

In this case it should - at least in German speaking countries - read "AM" and not "MA". "MA" would be possible in Italy, Spain or Fance
corrado26

Pukka Bundook · 26th October 2019, 06:38 PM

Dana,

This is a lovely and very interesting rifle!
When I saw the "screwless lock, I wondered if it pre-or post dated Henry
Nock's version.
I still don't know, as I see the lock is a replacement. It is very well done, and the rifle is high quality work.
Do you think the line we see in front of the lock plate was a "duffel cut" ?
By this I mean an arm brought back by a returning serviceman after the war? (Many were chopped to fit in a duffle -bag)
I find it a very delightful piece!
If there was any chance of seeing the lock internals, I would be very pleased to do so.
Congratulations, it is a wonderful piece!

Richard.

Fernando K · 26th October 2019, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corrado26

In this case it should - at least in German speaking countries - read "AM" and not "MA". "AM" would be possible in Italy, Spain or Fance
corrado26

Hola

En español Museo de aArtilleria (M A)

Afectuosamente

corrado26 · 27th October 2019, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dana_w

I'd all so love to learn something about the unusual screwless lock mechanism.

I think that the lock is much later than the rest of the gun and certainly a replacement - the replaced piece of wood at the left end of the lock is a clear proof.
This kind of lock, where all mechanical components are hidden at the inside of the lockplate may have been invented by Henry Nock but there was a Danish gunmaker C.W.Kyhl whose very similar contruction found use in the Danish cavalry pistol M 1807 - see foto. It would be very interesting to compare the inner side of the lock with the Danish lock made by Kyhl
corrado26

dana_w · 4th November 2019, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corrado26

I think that the lock is much later than the rest of the gun and certainly a replacement - the replaced piece of wood at the left end of the lock is a clear proof.
This kind of lock, where all mechanical components are hidden at the inside of the lockplate may have been invented by Henry Nock but there was a Danish gunmaker C.W.Kyhl whose very similar contruction found use in the Danish cavalry pistol M 1807 - see foto. It would be very interesting to compare the inner side of the lock with the Danish lock made by Kyhl
corrado26

I've been wondering if the lock could have been later than the rest. I'll think about removing the lock to have a look.

dana_w · 4th November 2019, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pukka Bundook

Dana,

This is a lovely and very interesting rifle!
When I saw the "screwless lock, I wondered if it pre-or post dated Henry
Nock's version.
I still don't know, as I see the lock is a replacement. It is very well done, and the rifle is high quality work.
Do you think the line we see in front of the lock plate was a "duffel cut" ?
By this I mean an arm brought back by a returning serviceman after the war? (Many were chopped to fit in a duffle -bag)
I find it a very delightful piece!
If there was any chance of seeing the lock internals, I would be very pleased to do so.
Congratulations, it is a wonderful piece!

Richard.

I'll take a closer look at that Richard.

It really doesn't look like the stock was ever "chopped to fit in a duffle"

23rd October 2019, 03:22 PM	#1
dana_w Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Southeast Florida, USA Posts: 437	Searching For Info On Jaeger Gun-maker, HITLLNGER FN STOCKERAV Yesterday I started photographing and researching this flintlock hunting rifle (Jaeger). Could someone with a copy of Der Neue Stockel check and see if this maker is listed? Thanks! HITLLNGER FN STOCKERAV STOCKERAV may be Stockerau, a Town in Austria. Attached Images

23rd October 2019, 05:01 PM	#2
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,240	Here is what Stoeckl says: Attached Images

23rd October 2019, 08:28 PM	#4
dana_w Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Southeast Florida, USA Posts: 437	This additional mark is on the stock under the patchbox cover. Attached Images

24th October 2019, 10:52 AM	#5
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,240	The sign ofer the "MA" might be a cannon. The "MA" could stand for "Miliär-Arsenal N°1240"

24th October 2019, 10:18 PM	#7
dana_w Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Southeast Florida, USA Posts: 437	I'd all so love to learn something about the unusual screwless lock mechanism.

24th October 2019, 11:16 PM	#8
Fernando K Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 672	Hello In any case, punching with M A 1 2 4 0 seems to be very recent. The alignment of the numbers is perfect. It looks like a unique punch and I don't think it's a punch from a modern military arsenal. Less than an old arsenal. Will it be a collection number? Affectionately

25th October 2019, 11:27 AM	#10
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Easy to agree that the marks by the patch box are not those of an arsenal; this is a non military gun, but a hunting one, plate decoratins and all. In my view also hardly a collection number; with such four digits, what kind of large collection would it be ?

25th October 2019, 01:59 PM	#13
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	A good point, Udo ! In such perspective, i know of a fine private collection that was donated to the local Oporto Military museu. Actually i know the person who was called to inventory it. Four digits were enough, though; this is a relatively small museum.

26th October 2019, 03:19 PM	#14
Fernando K Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 672	Hello If as Corrado says above the letters and numbers there is a cannon, the letters M A would correspond to! Artillery Museum .... Affectionately

26th October 2019, 06:38 PM	#16
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Dana, This is a lovely and very interesting rifle! When I saw the "screwless lock, I wondered if it pre-or post dated Henry Nock's version. I still don't know, as I see the lock is a replacement. It is very well done, and the rifle is high quality work. Do you think the line we see in front of the lock plate was a "duffel cut" ? By this I mean an arm brought back by a returning serviceman after the war? (Many were chopped to fit in a duffle -bag) I find it a very delightful piece! If there was any chance of seeing the lock internals, I would be very pleased to do so. Congratulations, it is a wonderful piece! Richard.