Do you have a Dzeferdar rifle?

Kubur · 11th June 2016, 06:03 PM

Hi Guys,

Do you have a Dzeferdar?
I saw only one on the forum...
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ight=dzeferdar
I might have one now...

Best,

TVV · 11th June 2016, 07:00 PM

I have one. The barrel is by far its best feature.

Teodor

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 11th June 2016, 07:11 PM

See http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13706 where Dom gives a translation on this weapon and also outlined at # 1.

See some more below and at http://nimcha.fr/3-balkans.htm where a nice comparison can be made of guns in the region...and the reason why I place the map...

Kubur · 12th June 2016, 11:13 AM

Thank you guys
Very nice one Teodor, outstanding collection...
One very old Dzefarder at the Royal armouries, Leeds, from the 17th c.
https://collections.royalarmouries.o...ect-31130.html
Best,
Kubur

rickystl · 12th June 2016, 05:29 PM

Hi Kubur !!

Well, if you do pick up a Dzeferdar, please post photos.
There are only two long guns missing for my collection. A Dzeferdar and a Boyliya. Both usually on the expesive side to purchase. A Boyliya will occasionally come up for sale, but it seems the Dzeferdars seldom do. But I'll keep looking.

Ibrahiim: Thanks so much for posting that Link with the brief descriptons of the long guns regional manufacture and map. Very handy information. Never seen this before. I saved the Link to my library. Thanks again.

Teodor: Really nice Dzeferdar !! Yes, I agree with you about the barrel.

Rick.

Kubur · 17th July 2016, 11:57 PM

Hi Guys,
Finaly some photos of the animal...
Best,
Kubur

estcrh · 18th July 2016, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

See http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13706 where Dom gives a translation on this weapon and also outlined at # 1.

See some more below and at http://nimcha.fr/3-balkans.htm where a nice comparison can be made of guns in the region...and the reason why I place the map...

the translation is not to good but nice chart.

estcrh · 18th July 2016, 03:11 PM

If you have not read this essay you should, it is very informative.

https://www.academia.edu/5414711/A_B...seum_Timisoara

or
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3j...ew?usp=sharing

estcrh · 18th July 2016, 11:10 PM

From the Met Museum, I am assuming that this is a dzeferdar with possibly an Indian barrel.

Quote:

Balkan miquelet gun, 18th century, wood, steel, brass, niello, silver, mother-of-pearl, coral, turquoise, sapphire, ruby, L. 62 3/4 in. (159.4 cm), Bequest of George C. Stone, 1935, Met Museum.

Kubur · 19th July 2016, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by estcrh

If you have not read this essay you should, it is very informative.

https://www.academia.edu/5414711/A_B...seum_Timisoara

or
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3j...ew?usp=sharing

Thank you very useful!!!

Kubur · 19th July 2016, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by estcrh

From the Met Museum, I am assuming that this is a dzeferdar with possibly an Indian barrel.

Oh yes, especially if you follow Elgood and Lebedynski, the Dzeferdar is a dinosaur of the old Turkish rifles who are themselves copies of old European ones.
They remained mostly on the Dalmatian coast during the 18th & 19th c.
For me the barrel is pure "Ottoman bling bling stones"...

estcrh · 19th July 2016, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

Hi Guys,
Finaly some photos of the animal...
Best,
Kubur

A nice example, if you have a chance can you take a close up picture of the lock?

rickystl · 23rd July 2016, 04:13 PM

Hi Kubur ! How have you been ? WOW!! That is a nice Dzeferdar. I really like all the fine brass work. Some observations I notice: Appears to be a full length, tapered octagon barrel, except for the neat monster head at the muzzle. Very cool !! Typical Balkan style lock. And the mechanical style barrel bands you often see on Tanchika long guns. That gun would clean up very nicely. But not really necessary. I really like it. Very nice addition to your collection. It seems they seldom are offered for sale. Great looking long gun. Thanks for Posting.

Yes, I second Estcrh's request. Please post a couple more pics of the lock when you have a chance.
Rick

rickystl · 23rd July 2016, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by estcrh

A nice example, if you have a chance can you take a close up picture of the lock?

Hi Estcrh.
That is the most common style miquelet lock I see on Balkan made guns. Except for the size for long gun or pistol, the locks all seem to be designed almost identical. Notice the pic you posted above, showing the different style of long guns, but all/most using the same style Balkan lock.
I have an Albanian pistol I shoot using the same lock. I found it well designed, strong, and very reliable. It would seem the owners of these guns back in the Period had the same results. Because you see them on so many guns.
Here is the same lock from my collection. It is in unused condition. I'll bet the lock on Kubur's gun looks almost identical. Interesting such a wide usage of the same lock.
Rick.

estcrh · 23rd July 2016, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickystl

Hi Estcrh.
That is the most common style miquelet lock I see on Balkan made guns. Except for the size for long gun or pistol, the locks all seem to be designed almost identical. Notice the pic you posted above, showing the different style of long guns, but all/most using the same style Balkan lock.
I have an Albanian pistol I shoot using the same lock. I found it well designed, strong, and very reliable. It would seem the owners of these guns back in the Period had the same results. Because you see them on so many guns.
Here is the same lock from my collection. It is in unused condition. I'll bet the lock on Kubur's gun looks almost identical. Interesting such a wide usage of the same lock.
Rick.

Rick, having pictures of the different types of locks is very helpful.

Kubur · 23rd July 2016, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickystl

Typical Balkan style lock. That gun would clean up very nicely.
Rick

Hi Rick,

Thank you
Yes unfortunatly one little piece of the lock is broken but still working on the two positions. Actualy I already spent few hours to clean it, it was completly black originaly.
Rick, i need your help on this post, it's an intriguing mystery
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=21690
Best,
Kubur

Kubur · 23rd July 2016, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by estcrh

Rick, having pictures of the different types of locks is very helpful.

Yes you are right.
I will scan and post some drawings with all the same kind of locks that I have in my books later (Russian and French mostly)
Best,

rickystl · 1st August 2016, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

Yes you are right.
I will scan and post some drawings with all the same kind of locks that I have in my books later (Russian and French mostly)
Best,

Here is a close-up of the Balkan made Boyliya style lock, sometimes called a Bulgarian lock. This one is well used with some of it's brass overlay loose and missing. But it is still in working order and gives you a good idea.
Rick

Ivo · 17th December 2016, 07:50 AM

Hello, some pictures of my favorite ...

Regards,

Ivo

rickystl · 18th December 2016, 04:47 PM

Hi Ivo.

That's a very nice piece. I don't blame you for it being one of your favorites. I especially like the barrel and barrel bands on this one. You often see this "style" of barrel band on Albanian and Greek long guns also. And note the lock is virtually identical to the Balkan made lock I posted earlier above. Again, there seems to have been wide spread use for this specific style of miquelet lock. Nice gun.

Rick

11th June 2016, 06:03 PM	#1
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Do you have a Dzeferdar rifle? Hi Guys, Do you have a Dzeferdar? I saw only one on the forum... http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ight=dzeferdar I might have one now... Best,

11th June 2016, 07:00 PM	#2
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,725	I have one. The barrel is by far its best feature. Teodor Attached Images

11th June 2016, 07:11 PM	#3
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	See http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13706 where Dom gives a translation on this weapon and also outlined at # 1. See some more below and at http://nimcha.fr/3-balkans.htm where a nice comparison can be made of guns in the region...and the reason why I place the map... Attached Images Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 11th June 2016 at 07:24 PM.

12th June 2016, 11:13 AM	#4
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Thank you guys Very nice one Teodor, outstanding collection... One very old Dzefarder at the Royal armouries, Leeds, from the 17th c. https://collections.royalarmouries.o...ect-31130.html Best, Kubur Attached Images

17th July 2016, 11:57 PM	#6
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Hi Guys, Finaly some photos of the animal... Best, Kubur Attached Images

12th June 2016, 05:29 PM	#5
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,633	Hi Kubur !! Well, if you do pick up a Dzeferdar, please post photos. There are only two long guns missing for my collection. A Dzeferdar and a Boyliya. Both usually on the expesive side to purchase. A Boyliya will occasionally come up for sale, but it seems the Dzeferdars seldom do. But I'll keep looking. Ibrahiim: Thanks so much for posting that Link with the brief descriptons of the long guns regional manufacture and map. Very handy information. Never seen this before. I saved the Link to my library. Thanks again. Teodor: Really nice Dzeferdar !! Yes, I agree with you about the barrel. Rick.

18th July 2016, 03:11 PM	#8
estcrh Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: USA Posts: 1,492	If you have not read this essay you should, it is very informative. https://www.academia.edu/5414711/A_B...seum_Timisoara or https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3j...ew?usp=sharing Attached Images Last edited by estcrh; 18th July 2016 at 04:33 PM.

23rd July 2016, 04:13 PM	#13
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,633	Hi Kubur ! How have you been ? WOW!! That is a nice Dzeferdar. I really like all the fine brass work. Some observations I notice: Appears to be a full length, tapered octagon barrel, except for the neat monster head at the muzzle. Very cool !! Typical Balkan style lock. And the mechanical style barrel bands you often see on Tanchika long guns. That gun would clean up very nicely. But not really necessary. I really like it. Very nice addition to your collection. It seems they seldom are offered for sale. Great looking long gun. Thanks for Posting. Yes, I second Estcrh's request. Please post a couple more pics of the lock when you have a chance. Rick

17th December 2016, 07:50 AM	#19
Ivo Member Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 38	Hello, some pictures of my favorite ... Regards, Ivo Attached Images

18th December 2016, 04:47 PM	#20
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,633	Hi Ivo. That's a very nice piece. I don't blame you for it being one of your favorites. I especially like the barrel and barrel bands on this one. You often see this "style" of barrel band on Albanian and Greek long guns also. And note the lock is virtually identical to the Balkan made lock I posted earlier above. Again, there seems to have been wide spread use for this specific style of miquelet lock. Nice gun. Rick