Interesting scabbard/hilt bone

artisana · 24th May 2011, 04:10 PM

Any comment on this item is welcome.

Atlantia · 24th May 2011, 04:40 PM

Hi Artisana,

Looks almost like air bubbles in the surface of the hilt material. It's definately not resin is it?

danny1976 · 24th May 2011, 05:23 PM

Artisana ,

Sorry but when i look to your ''keris'' i strongly believe that it is made from
molded material (plastic) Did you try to stick a hot needle in it ??

Sorry again...but the blade

Regards,

Danny

mrwizard · 24th May 2011, 05:24 PM

Hi Artisana,

According to this site http://www.hubert-herald.nl/IndoMadura.htm
the winged horse is the regional emblem of Sumenep.

Best Regards,
Thilo

David · 24th May 2011, 05:33 PM

I agree that the material looks suspect. Hard to be definitive from the photos. This is done in a Madurese style know as "gabilan". The blade is not a real keris however, but a roughly hewed tourist item. Note that it seems to have a rectangular tang and it does not appear to be forged by any traditional keris process. Is this another item presented to you by that same dukun?

Sajen · 24th May 2011, 07:25 PM

Hello Artisana,

the material of the sheath is definitely from a moulded material. I know this material since I have handled it time by time in Indonesia. I have seen sheaths and handles from this material. The hot needle test don't work very well by this material because it is very hard and it have a feel nearly like stone. The blade is just a piece of besi (iron) and have nothing to do with a keris.
Sorry, but I have to agree with the others.

Regards,

Detlef

Henk · 24th May 2011, 08:37 PM

Tourist stuff.

Sorry.

asomotif · 24th May 2011, 11:20 PM

Interesting scabbard indeed.

I knew the moulded handles, and also moulded sewar scabbards
But this is the first moulded madurese scabbard I see.

Not the real deal as already mentioned by the others.
But this website is about learning, so interesting to see this material.

Best regards,
Willem

David · 24th May 2011, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asomotif

But this website is about learning, so interesting to see this material.

Frankly Willem, i'm more disturbed than interested...

Rick · 25th May 2011, 12:31 AM

This stuff is like rock hard plaster of Paris .
I have seen this material also <from the losing end> .

Education costs money .

asomotif · 25th May 2011, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Frankly Willem, i'm more disturbed than interested...

Rick, I fully agree. but therefore interesting as a form of "detecting the fakes".

A. G. Maisey · 25th May 2011, 01:02 AM

Artisana, it is exactly as Rick has said:-

education costs money

real keris, whether old or recent are not cheap, especially when they are purchased in Indonesia.

People with limited experience often have the idea that if one goes to the source, one is able to acquire genuine old, or good quality keris --- or other artifacts --- at a lower price than if they buy outside of the area of origin. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Unless one is an accepted member of the keris trade in Indonesia, it is very likely that one will acquire keris that do have a great value as, let us say, "teaching pieces". That is, keris that when one has gained sufficient knowledge and experience, do have the very valuable property of being examples of what to avoid.

I continually see examples of keris and other weapons that have been acquired in Indonesia by people who are inadequately prepared to buy in that country. Very occasionally I will see something that is a true find, mostly what I see is the product of an experienced dealer, or a shyster, who has managed to convince an inexperienced person to part with some money.

Usually I do not comment on these keris unless I am pointedly and privately asked.

However, in your case it is obvious to me that you do need a little bit of advice, if you are prepared to accept it.

May I most respectfully suggest that if you have an interest in the keris, that you do not spend a single penny more until you have spent some time going through some of the threads in this Forum, and accessing some good reading material.

Here is a link to a reasonably good reading list:-

http://www.kerisattosanaji.com/kerisinformation.html

artisana · 25th May 2011, 02:36 AM

Thanks gentlemen for the assistance!
Yes i need a lot of reading and i will do so..
I did not expect to get exceptional items but neither did i expect to get total rubbish since the so called "dukun" was longtime friend of my wifes family .. but apparently this not means anything to him..and this did not keep him from cheating .. sad but reality.
As being an atheist I was really open to learn about the mystic world but this scam is a serious holdback and true dissapointment.
Thanks again
Alain

24th May 2011, 04:10 PM	#1
artisana Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 18	Interesting scabbard/hilt bone Any comment on this item is welcome. Attached Images

25th May 2011, 02:36 AM	#13
artisana Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 18	Mystic Thanks gentlemen for the assistance! Yes i need a lot of reading and i will do so.. I did not expect to get exceptional items but neither did i expect to get total rubbish since the so called "dukun" was longtime friend of my wifes family .. but apparently this not means anything to him..and this did not keep him from cheating .. sad but reality. As being an atheist I was really open to learn about the mystic world but this scam is a serious holdback and true dissapointment. Thanks again Alain

24th May 2011, 04:40 PM	#2
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Hi Artisana, Looks almost like air bubbles in the surface of the hilt material. It's definately not resin is it?

24th May 2011, 05:23 PM	#3
danny1976 Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Holland Posts: 245	Artisana , Sorry but when i look to your ''keris'' i strongly believe that it is made from molded material (plastic) Did you try to stick a hot needle in it ?? Sorry again...but the blade Regards, Danny

24th May 2011, 05:24 PM	#4
mrwizard Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Dortmund, Germany Posts: 102	Hi Artisana, According to this site http://www.hubert-herald.nl/IndoMadura.htm the winged horse is the regional emblem of Sumenep. Best Regards, Thilo

24th May 2011, 05:33 PM	#5
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,250	I agree that the material looks suspect. Hard to be definitive from the photos. This is done in a Madurese style know as "gabilan". The blade is not a real keris however, but a roughly hewed tourist item. Note that it seems to have a rectangular tang and it does not appear to be forged by any traditional keris process. Is this another item presented to you by that same dukun?

24th May 2011, 07:25 PM	#6
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,416	Hello Artisana, the material of the sheath is definitely from a moulded material. I know this material since I have handled it time by time in Indonesia. I have seen sheaths and handles from this material. The hot needle test don't work very well by this material because it is very hard and it have a feel nearly like stone. The blade is just a piece of besi (iron) and have nothing to do with a keris. Sorry, but I have to agree with the others. Regards, Detlef

24th May 2011, 08:37 PM	#7
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Tourist stuff. Sorry.

24th May 2011, 11:20 PM	#8
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,237	Interesting scabbard indeed. I knew the moulded handles, and also moulded sewar scabbards But this is the first moulded madurese scabbard I see. Not the real deal as already mentioned by the others. But this website is about learning, so interesting to see this material. Best regards, Willem

25th May 2011, 12:31 AM	#10
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,376	This stuff is like rock hard plaster of Paris . I have seen this material also <from the losing end> . Education costs money .

25th May 2011, 01:02 AM	#12
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,085	Artisana, it is exactly as Rick has said:- education costs money real keris, whether old or recent are not cheap, especially when they are purchased in Indonesia. People with limited experience often have the idea that if one goes to the source, one is able to acquire genuine old, or good quality keris --- or other artifacts --- at a lower price than if they buy outside of the area of origin. Nothing could be further from the truth. Unless one is an accepted member of the keris trade in Indonesia, it is very likely that one will acquire keris that do have a great value as, let us say, "teaching pieces". That is, keris that when one has gained sufficient knowledge and experience, do have the very valuable property of being examples of what to avoid. I continually see examples of keris and other weapons that have been acquired in Indonesia by people who are inadequately prepared to buy in that country. Very occasionally I will see something that is a true find, mostly what I see is the product of an experienced dealer, or a shyster, who has managed to convince an inexperienced person to part with some money. Usually I do not comment on these keris unless I am pointedly and privately asked. However, in your case it is obvious to me that you do need a little bit of advice, if you are prepared to accept it. May I most respectfully suggest that if you have an interest in the keris, that you do not spend a single penny more until you have spent some time going through some of the threads in this Forum, and accessing some good reading material. Here is a link to a reasonably good reading list:- http://www.kerisattosanaji.com/kerisinformation.html