Saber-type dating based on the characteristics of the hilt.

[Richard R.]

Hello,

For research purposes, I am looking for comparative sabres that have the same type of elaborately designed knuckle bow (hand guard) as saber 1 und 2 below. It would be even better if the langets were decorated with lictor bundles and flags (trophies of arms), Saber 1 und 3 below, or if they had a straight quillion that ends in an animal head as saber 3 shown.

Can anyone tell me whether the “lictor bundle on flags” on langets refers to a specific military unit?

I would also be interested to hear your opinion on whether the specific characteristics of this type of hilt date from before or after 1800, and to which country they are most likely to be attributed.

Thank you

[Hotspur]

Generally no.

The panoplies are usually generic.

Yellow hilts for artillery and navy. Silver for infantry

In the genre of US militia swords, private purchase was private purchase. Anything went but there were some expectations with federal weapons.

Cheers
GC

[Hotspur]

A langet that was probably for NY militia

Ames had early contracts for the army and as mentioned, yellow for artillery, silver for infantry (1836)

Cheers
GC

[Magey_McMage]

Originally Posted by Richard R.

Hello,

For research purposes, I am looking for comparative sabres that have the same type of elaborately designed knuckle bow (hand guard) as saber 1 und 2 below. It would be even better if the langets were decorated with lictor bundles and flags (trophies of arms), Saber 1 und 3 below, or if they had a straight quillion that ends in an animal head as saber 3 shown.

Can anyone tell me whether the “lictor bundle on flags” on langets refers to a specific military unit?

I would also be interested to hear your opinion on whether the specific characteristics of this type of hilt date from before or after 1800, and to which country they are most likely to be attributed.

Thank you

I know you are mostly referring to American late 18/early 19th century swords. But in general the lictor bundle/fasces/trophies of arms are general symbols put on swords of this era. Later, when relief acid etching became more popular the dense floral work took over. You also see more national styles whereas the earlier ones are more broad and seen anywhere specific etching wasn't used. I know the Southern Italian (Naples/Sicily) swords had some generalist designs into the 1st and 2nd quarters of the 19th century.

HOWEVER, according to Armes Blanches by Jean l'Hoste, some of these symbols DO have some level of dating or provenance, at least with regards to their inclusion on swords during the nice period France was changing governments weekly. I can post some photos or scans from the section he talks about these but I want to make sure it is OK to post things in a copyrighted book first. Some of the differences are the inclusion of 1 or 2 axes, a phrygian cap, and other details like that. Not exactly what you were asking for but since this is the only answer I can think of I at least wanted to provide what I could. Thank you!