for share and comment

[Mamat Lombok]

Dear forum ,

here i want to share one of my balinesse / lombok blade.
your comments are wellcome.

kind regards,
mamat

[Marcokeris]

Nice lar gansir pamor. Imo the blade seems a Java (or Madura) blade

[Jean]

The pamor extends to the tip and it looks superficially applied on the iron/steel core. I am not sure that this is an old blade.

[A. G. Maisey]

Bali/Lombok?

Interesting.

We learn something new every day.

[delor]

Originally Posted by Jean

The pamor extends to the tip and it looks superficially applied on the iron/steel core. I am not sure that this is an old blade.

My opinion too. And the twisted pattern looks quite unusual to me...

[Mamat Lombok]

hi friends,
thank you for your comment.
for Jean: you certainly could argue that this blade is not old, but of course I also know better because I got this blade from the original rural population of lombok and I am sure about the authenticity of this blade.
to Alan: Yes it is...this is lombok / bali blade.
thank you

mamat

[Jean]

Originally Posted by Mamat Lombok

hi friends,
thank you for your comment.
for Jean: you certainly could argue that this blade is not old, but of course I also know better because I got this blade from the original rural population of lombok and I am sure about the authenticity of this blade.
to Alan: Yes it is...this is lombok / bali blade.
thank you

mamat

Hello Mamat,
If you are sure about the origin and age of your blade, what do you expect from the forum members then?
Best regards
Jean

[Mamat Lombok]

Originally Posted by Jean

Hello Mamat,
If you are sure about the origin and age of your blade, what do you expect from the forum members then?
Best regards
Jean

hello Jean,
thank you for your opinion ...you are right .. .. I send this picture to share and comments, it is my expectation .. but when you say that the blade is not old, I would have to argue.
about the age of this dagger frankly I do not know, I just based estimates only.
Thank you.

Mamat

[David]

Originally Posted by Mamat Lombok

hello Jean,
thank you for your opinion ...you are right .. .. I send this picture to share and comments, it is my expectation .. but when you say that the blade is not old, I would have to argue.
about the age of this dagger frankly I do not know, I just based estimates only.
Thank you.

Mamat

Well Mamat, you put the blade up for comments and comments you got. You say the blade is old because of where you claim to have collected it, but then you say that "frankly I do not know". So what exactly do you base your estimates on and how old is "old". We had this conversation not to long ago. I personally don't call something "old" unless it's pre WWII. It's not "antique unless it is at least 100 years old. But a couple of decades is considered "old by some. Last week is old for some. Which definition of "old do you adhere to?
Frankly, for me this blade raises a few red flags in terms of age and origin. Others here seem to feel the same way. These are, of course, just opinions, but they come from educated sources. Arguing seems pointless unless you can offer some solid provenance.

[Alam Shah]

What I've heard from friends.. unethical dealers do purposely send new artificially aged keris to villagers, meant to trick those whom are seeking old keris in the village, hoping to find a 'sleeper'. Sometimes, these keris are left on purpose to develop rust and 'so-called' patina.. so that the outlook seems old and more believable when viewed by the seeker..

In my limited travels, I've come across some of these.. sometimes a third-party is used to promote the sale.. caveat emptor..

[delor]

Does someone know any example of true ancient kerises with such twisted pattern ?

[Sajen]

Here pictures of a lar gansir blade from my collection, unfortunately relative worn out. Note that the pamor look upwards on one side and downwards at the other side.

[Jean]

A recent specimen probably made in Madura.

[delor]

Jean, Sagen, thank you.
Jean, recent but very nice blade. Sagen, do you know if this is a recent or "ancient" blade.
In other words, my question was to know if twisted pattern is traditionally accurate.

Regards.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by delor

Jean, Sagen, thank you.
Jean, recent but very nice blade. Sagen, do you know if this is a recent or "ancient" blade.
In other words, my question was to know if twisted pattern is traditionally accurate.

Regards.

Delor,

the worn out pamor and the worn edges let me think that it is an old blade. The pamor lar gangsir is a pamor what you can find on old/antique keris blades.

Regards,

Detlef

[A. G. Maisey]

Everybody seems to be focussing on whether this is an old --- or "older" --- blade, or a recent blade.

Similarly there seems to be intense interest in the pamor.

Frankly, neither of these things grab my attention.

When a blade looks like this I simply cannot tell from a photo, especially a photo on a computer screen , if it has any age or not.

As for the pamor, this particular pamor is not uncommon in keris from a number of areas.

There are several things which do interest me:-

the gandik, the kembang kacang, the distance from the pesi to the sirah cecak, the form of the pesi, the form of the luk.

If I look at these things I do not see either Lombok or recent Madura.

I tend towards a classification of Madura pre WWII, but I am simply not prepared to give any firm opinion from photos.I doubt Lombok for a classification, but that is a hesitant doubt, it is not a firm statement.

As I have already said:- it is an interesting blade.

[Jean]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

If I look at these things I do not see either Lombok or recent Madura.

I tend towards a classification of Madura pre WWII, but I am simply not prepared to give any firm opinion from photos.I doubt Lombok for a classification, but that is a hesitant doubt, it is not a firm statement.

As I have already said:- it is an interesting blade.

Hello Mamat,
You have got a positive and controlled opinion, it was difficult to give one for most of us. Is there a sheath for this blade, it could give some clues also if it is an old one?
Best regards
Jean