First Keris acquired

scratch · 30th July 2008, 04:33 AM

G'day,

I purchased this keris locally, I liked the way it felt in the hand and the blade looked old to me. Could this be a short Bali keris? I'm guessing the hilt and mendak are newer? The scabbard fits blade. I have also included a hilt that I guess is modern?
Blade length from hilt 14 3/4 in.
Blade thickness at hilt 1/2 in.
Comments on age and origin would be greatly appreciated.

Kind regards,

Daniel

Marcokeris · 30th July 2008, 05:10 AM

The two hits seems to be new
The mendak too
(Bali) blade and sarong old

scratch · 30th July 2008, 11:42 AM

Thank you for confirming origin Marcokeris

I am also happy to learn that blade and sarong are old, pre 1900's?
What would a hilt and mendak congruent to the age and style of blade look like? I guess this is quite a common blade and scabbard, yet it has led me to become enthusiastic about learnig and hopefully acquiring a few more keris, I do like the larger Bali pieces

Cheers,

Dan

David · 30th July 2008, 04:21 PM

It is certainly in Bali dress, but i am not convinced that the blade is Balinese. It looks more Javanese to my eyes.
I agree that the sarong is older while the hilt(s) and the uwer are new. Nothing wrong with that.

Your Bali hilt is no great piece of carving, but it has a nice expression IMO. I like it. An older hilt wouldn't necessarily be all that different. There are countless styles of Bali hilts.

scratch · 30th July 2008, 11:03 PM

Thank you for your comments David

Would that be East Java?
It feels like a practical piece to me

scratch · 31st July 2008, 01:09 AM

If it is helpful, here are some different blade perspectives.
I have given blade a light etch and can see a pamor?

Cheers,

Daniel

Marcokeris · 31st July 2008, 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scratch

Thank you for your comments David

Would that be East Java?
It feels like a practical piece to me

From this pictures the hilt could be older.It's difficul to understand the age from a photo.There is no FEELING!
Is the surface smooth or not ? How is the colour/aspect of the hole on the bottom ?

Henk · 31st July 2008, 09:55 AM

I think this keris is from Bali or Lombok.
The blade was rather neglected, but in my opinion it was a polished blade.
An attractive ukiran. Hard to tell if it is an old one from the picture. Wrangka seems to have some age. The gandar is a more recent replacement.

You better etch the blade with warangan to get the pamor out again.

ganjawulung · 31st July 2008, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scratch

G'day,

I purchased this keris locally, I liked the way it felt in the hand and the blade looked old to me. Could this be a short Bali keris? I'm guessing the hilt and mendak are newer? The scabbard fits blade. I have also included a hilt that I guess is modern?

The blade looks old to me too, Daniel (just guessing, from pics only). And also good garap (workmanship). But no matter, whether it is balinese, lombok or javanese blade, the warangka is suitable for it. IMHO, maybe it will be better if you would add balinese style silver pendhok to cover the gandar (specially ordered by the owner). Good timoho wood "pelokan" (upper part of the warangka), old balinese style, but with different "gandar" (lower part of the warangka or scabbard).
How to add the silver pendhok? I think you may send the warangka only, to someone in Bali (I don't know, maybe in Celuk near Ubud or Sukawati, Gianyar Bali) or to Jogjakarta (Java). There are a couple of silver carvers in Kota Gede, near Jogjakarta who could do it...

scratch · 1st August 2008, 01:48 AM

I understand what you say about photos Marcokeris. I lack the experience to tell handles/ukirans age, It shows smoothness in areas of possible hand contact, whether this is thru handling or artificial, I can't say. Who does the figure represent? I had thoughts of a Balinese dancer or hindu deity?
Hello Henk! Your thoughts and comments are always very appreciated

I have used 0000 steel wool and mineral oil in preparation for a traditional style etch that the previous owner is providing ingredients and instructions for. I am interested in seeing the results, if all goes well.
Thanks for your interest and suggestions Ganjawulung

I'm glad that you mentioned the blade was of good workmanship, I had thought it wellmade but lack any comparisons. Where older keris all crafted by Empu or did a graded system of keris bladesmiths exist? There is a box of keris bits and pieces that includes a few metal lower scabbard/gandars that I may acquire, as well two books "The Kris mystic weapon of the Malay world" and "Kris Gli Invicibili"
The keris seems to be a subject of much depth.

Cheers!

scratch · 18th August 2008, 07:53 AM

G'day
I was hoping for a darker stain, perhaps I should readminister process?
Any thoughts on pamor please? Random or planned, neither?
I am liking keris very much

Thank you in advance for your time.

Kind regards,

Dan

Rick · 18th August 2008, 03:07 PM

The handle is quite nice; I think I see the remains of a finish; is it painted or gilded Scratch ?

I can see pamor but it looks very minimal and scattered; or maybe it's just the picture ?
What staining solution was used ?
Warangan ?

Rick

scratch · 18th August 2008, 11:55 PM

Rick,
The mix I used for staining was white arsenic and lime juice/warangan. I may have made the paste to runny. I sat mix for 15 mins. Left mix on blade for 15 mins, rinsed, then reapplied mix. Left for 15 mins rinsed, dried. This was my first attempt and any advice will be gratefully received. I had thought pamor came in both minimal and intricate forms?
Indeed, My camera skills/tools are not the best, I do try.
The handle may have had some black substance on it that has been removed

I cant be sure.
I have a Bali/Lombok piece that also needs staining.
Thanks for your interest Rick

Cheers,

Dan

30th July 2008, 04:33 AM	#1
scratch Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 96	First Keris acquired G'day, I purchased this keris locally, I liked the way it felt in the hand and the blade looked old to me. Could this be a short Bali keris? I'm guessing the hilt and mendak are newer? The scabbard fits blade. I have also included a hilt that I guess is modern? Blade length from hilt 14 3/4 in. Blade thickness at hilt 1/2 in. Comments on age and origin would be greatly appreciated. Kind regards, Daniel Attached Images

30th July 2008, 11:03 PM	#5
scratch Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 96	Thank you for your comments David Would that be East Java? It feels like a practical piece to me Attached Images

31st July 2008, 01:09 AM	#6
scratch Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 96	If it is helpful, here are some different blade perspectives. I have given blade a light etch and can see a pamor? Cheers, Daniel Attached Images

18th August 2008, 07:53 AM	#11
scratch Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 96	First warangan attempt G'day I was hoping for a darker stain, perhaps I should readminister process? Any thoughts on pamor please? Random or planned, neither? I am liking keris very much Thank you in advance for your time. Kind regards, Dan Attached Images

18th August 2008, 03:07 PM	#12
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	The handle is quite nice; I think I see the remains of a finish; is it painted or gilded Scratch ? I can see pamor but it looks very minimal and scattered; or maybe it's just the picture ? What staining solution was used ? Warangan ? Rick Last edited by Rick; 18th August 2008 at 07:08 PM.

30th July 2008, 05:10 AM	#2
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	The two hits seems to be new The mendak too (Bali) blade and sarong old

30th July 2008, 11:42 AM	#3
scratch Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 96	Thank you for confirming origin Marcokeris I am also happy to learn that blade and sarong are old, pre 1900's? What would a hilt and mendak congruent to the age and style of blade look like? I guess this is quite a common blade and scabbard, yet it has led me to become enthusiastic about learnig and hopefully acquiring a few more keris, I do like the larger Bali pieces Cheers, Dan

30th July 2008, 04:21 PM	#4
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,213	It is certainly in Bali dress, but i am not convinced that the blade is Balinese. It looks more Javanese to my eyes. I agree that the sarong is older while the hilt(s) and the uwer are new. Nothing wrong with that. Your Bali hilt is no great piece of carving, but it has a nice expression IMO. I like it. An older hilt wouldn't necessarily be all that different. There are countless styles of Bali hilts.

31st July 2008, 09:55 AM	#8
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	I think this keris is from Bali or Lombok. The blade was rather neglected, but in my opinion it was a polished blade. An attractive ukiran. Hard to tell if it is an old one from the picture. Wrangka seems to have some age. The gandar is a more recent replacement. You better etch the blade with warangan to get the pamor out again.

1st August 2008, 01:48 AM	#10
scratch Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 96	I understand what you say about photos Marcokeris. I lack the experience to tell handles/ukirans age, It shows smoothness in areas of possible hand contact, whether this is thru handling or artificial, I can't say. Who does the figure represent? I had thoughts of a Balinese dancer or hindu deity? Hello Henk! Your thoughts and comments are always very appreciated I have used 0000 steel wool and mineral oil in preparation for a traditional style etch that the previous owner is providing ingredients and instructions for. I am interested in seeing the results, if all goes well. Thanks for your interest and suggestions Ganjawulung I'm glad that you mentioned the blade was of good workmanship, I had thought it wellmade but lack any comparisons. Where older keris all crafted by Empu or did a graded system of keris bladesmiths exist? There is a box of keris bits and pieces that includes a few metal lower scabbard/gandars that I may acquire, as well two books "The Kris mystic weapon of the Malay world" and "Kris Gli Invicibili" The keris seems to be a subject of much depth. Cheers!

18th August 2008, 11:55 PM	#13
scratch Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 96	Rick, The mix I used for staining was white arsenic and lime juice/warangan. I may have made the paste to runny. I sat mix for 15 mins. Left mix on blade for 15 mins, rinsed, then reapplied mix. Left for 15 mins rinsed, dried. This was my first attempt and any advice will be gratefully received. I had thought pamor came in both minimal and intricate forms? Indeed, My camera skills/tools are not the best, I do try. The handle may have had some black substance on it that has been removed I cant be sure. I have a Bali/Lombok piece that also needs staining. Thanks for your interest Rick Cheers, Dan