Is this a good, bad or average Koummya?

Andy Stevens · 1st January 2008, 03:15 PM

I'm ready for the tears and tissues so give it to me straight gentlemen; good, bad or just ugly?

I've seen so many nasty examples over the years that I'm never really sure whats good in the world of Koummyas. This one feels pretty ok, worn in all the right places, blades strong and sharp. Still never sure...go on... I can take like a man

ALEX · 1st January 2008, 03:41 PM

Andy,
It all depends on what one compares it with:-)
AnthonyTiri in his book (pages 32-33) shows Moroccan 19th Century Koummya examples and references their quality. Based on scabbard details, yours would be of lesser quality.

ward · 1st January 2008, 04:17 PM

Most of these koummya are 20th century. From Fes to Tiznit you find piles and piles of these in the souqs. In the north more brass mounted ones in the south more silver mounted. Yours is about average quality

kai · 1st January 2008, 08:23 PM

Hello Andy,

This looks like a fairly good blade to me - do you have calipers to exactly measure blade thickness?

The hilt also looks old and genuine (the metal crest on the peacock pommel is missing, obviously).

I agree that the scroll work on hilt and scabbard isn't on par with those picture book examples but if the blade has a decent thickness, I'd be fairly confident that this is a (tribal?) fighting piece rather than one of the showy wanna-be koummyas sold to travellers of pleasure since the late 19th century...

Happy New Year to all forumites!

Regards,
Kai

Andy Stevens · 2nd January 2008, 10:19 AM

Thanks chaps,
Kai, the blade at its thickest is 3.5mm, seems to my eye anyway, a well made and well handled weapon. I'm edging towards the middle ground on this one- may find a bit of wall space for it-thats until a better one comes along for a nice price

Thanks again

Jim McDougall · 2nd January 2008, 10:25 PM

It seems to me that much like the janbiyya, khanjhar and many forms of dagger which are still worn in various cultural spheres as elements of traditional costume, the koummya is still worn as well. In this case, wouldnt many of the more modern examples of these weapons be intended as genuine traditional pieces for actual wear as well as being picked up by tourists?

It seems that most of the koummya that have been posted in recent times here have typically been quite modern. Does anyone have earlier examples they might share to get a better idea of how these might appear?

I think these are very attractive daggers, and was once told the pommel reflected the influence of earlier Italian weapons of that trade along the North African coastal ports, specifically the cinqueda. I would very much like to hear thoughts on that, or other observations on this distinctive pommel form.

All best regards,
Jim

kai · 3rd January 2008, 11:52 PM

Hello Andy,

Quote:

the blade at its thickest is 3.5mm

That makes it a real weapon (rather than a mere dress item or tourist grade toy) in my book!

Regards,
Kai

1st January 2008, 03:15 PM	#1
Andy Stevens Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: London Posts: 155	Is this a good, bad or average Koummya? I'm ready for the tears and tissues so give it to me straight gentlemen; good, bad or just ugly? I've seen so many nasty examples over the years that I'm never really sure whats good in the world of Koummyas. This one feels pretty ok, worn in all the right places, blades strong and sharp. Still never sure...go on... I can take like a man Attached Images

1st January 2008, 03:41 PM	#2
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	Andy, It all depends on what one compares it with:-) AnthonyTiri in his book (pages 32-33) shows Moroccan 19th Century Koummya examples and references their quality. Based on scabbard details, yours would be of lesser quality.

1st January 2008, 04:17 PM	#3
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	Most of these koummya are 20th century. From Fes to Tiznit you find piles and piles of these in the souqs. In the north more brass mounted ones in the south more silver mounted. Yours is about average quality

1st January 2008, 08:23 PM	#4
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	Hello Andy, This looks like a fairly good blade to me - do you have calipers to exactly measure blade thickness? The hilt also looks old and genuine (the metal crest on the peacock pommel is missing, obviously). I agree that the scroll work on hilt and scabbard isn't on par with those picture book examples but if the blade has a decent thickness, I'd be fairly confident that this is a (tribal?) fighting piece rather than one of the showy wanna-be koummyas sold to travellers of pleasure since the late 19th century... Happy New Year to all forumites! Regards, Kai

2nd January 2008, 10:19 AM	#5
Andy Stevens Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: London Posts: 155	Thanks chaps, Kai, the blade at its thickest is 3.5mm, seems to my eye anyway, a well made and well handled weapon. I'm edging towards the middle ground on this one- may find a bit of wall space for it-thats until a better one comes along for a nice price Thanks again

2nd January 2008, 10:25 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,192	It seems to me that much like the janbiyya, khanjhar and many forms of dagger which are still worn in various cultural spheres as elements of traditional costume, the koummya is still worn as well. In this case, wouldnt many of the more modern examples of these weapons be intended as genuine traditional pieces for actual wear as well as being picked up by tourists? It seems that most of the koummya that have been posted in recent times here have typically been quite modern. Does anyone have earlier examples they might share to get a better idea of how these might appear? I think these are very attractive daggers, and was once told the pommel reflected the influence of earlier Italian weapons of that trade along the North African coastal ports, specifically the cinqueda. I would very much like to hear thoughts on that, or other observations on this distinctive pommel form. All best regards, Jim