P a t r e m -- The Smaller Keris

ganjawulung · 22nd May 2007, 05:33 PM

Dear All,

Certainly, this is not a scene in Golgotha. I just want so share with you all about the Smaller Keris the Javanese call it as "patrem". So small, that people often call the patrem as "keris for women". The size is about -- in Javanese word: "sekilan". Or the size of spreading fingers, from thumb to the other end of the finger (I miss my English word for my smallest finger)...

The patrem's dhapur is usually very simple: straight and no much details (ricikan). Mostly, dhapur "brojol", "tilamupih", "tilamsari". But sometimes "naga" motives too.

This time, I will show you a keris which was reshaped (I don't know the exact word of Javanese "dibesut" or "keris besutan" in English) by may favorite Solonese keris-maker, Sukamdi. Almost not changed the size, and certainly not change the ricikan (details) or added something in the blade, except renew the "greneng" (I don't even know the right English word for this, please David). So actually, the form is still Majapahit patrem, but seems very brand new. Sorry for to do that. Because, such action is allowed in Solonese people, but prohibited in the neighboring city, Yogyakarta. Very sorry for that...

Ganjawulung

ganjawulung · 22nd May 2007, 05:59 PM

I am so sorry, these are the pictures...

ganjawulung · 22nd May 2007, 10:22 PM

This patrem bears naga motive, but the very simple naga. The hilt is Cirebonese. And the sheath is a small "sandang walikat" style, made of forest-mango (mangga hutan) wood. The blade is still in original form...

David · 23rd May 2007, 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

Almost not changed the size, and certainly not change the ricikan (details) or added something in the blade, except renew the "greneng" (I don't even know the right English word for this, please David).

Don't worry Ganja, i would use the Javanese tern "greneng" in this case as well.

Sometimes, as with terms like gonjo, sogokan, etc. it is just the easiest way.
Here are my humble offerrings in this classification, one Sumatran and 3 Madurese patrem...but please don't ask to see the blades.

ganjawulung · 23rd May 2007, 06:26 AM

Thanks David,

I don't even have a Sumatran keris or sheath. Hilts, maybe I have. I am sorry for my "Indonesian" English in this forum (In-glish)...

Newsteel · 23rd May 2007, 10:24 AM

Patrem keris may not be necessarily for a woman. It could also meant for a young boy (age 7-12 yrs old).

Olden days, being a small boy was to play and sometime helps their parent at work, other than schooling. Having the first keris (mostly keris patrem) is their first so-called responsibility, that is to take good care of that keris. But this has another depth meaning. A task so as not to 'play around' with the keris (fighting, create trouble, harm or bullying others). Simply said a father would want his boy to build his character to be a responsible and wise man.

ganjawulung · 23rd May 2007, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newsteel

Patrem keris may not be necessarily for a woman. It could also meant for a young boy (age 7-12 yrs old).

You are right, Newsteel,

In Javanese villages, dhukun (practitioners) also use patrem, or even smaller than patrem (amulet-keris). It is more difficult to find good patrems than good kerises. And the specific accessories for patrem, are also rare. Old patrem's hilts, are seldom. And also the mendhak...

Raden Usman Djogja · 23rd May 2007, 11:52 AM

Gonjo,

You have a lot of nice and good collection.

Us

VVV · 23rd May 2007, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

You are right, Newsteel,

In Javanese villages, dhukun (practitioners) also use patrem, or even smaller than patrem (amulet-keris). It is more difficult to find good patrems than good kerises. And the specific accessories for patrem, are also rare. Old patrem's hilts, are seldom. And also the mendhak...

Ganja,

I have this very small keris, 31 cm overall (like a keris sajen), that was supposed to be used at ceremonial rites in Banjarmasin.
Do you know more about how, and for what, a dukun used the small keris?

Michael

Alam Shah · 24th May 2007, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newsteel

Patrem keris may not be necessarily for a woman. It could also meant for a young boy (age 7-12 yrs old)....

Here's a Peninsular styled, boy's keris.

HanaChu69 · 3rd June 2007, 07:45 AM

Hi,

I’m a regular guest to warung kopi but somehow this thread has caught my interest. I always have great fascination for patrem and noticed the cool pictures being posted here...very interesting indeed! I like best the piece with abstract of "a mother sitting, taking care of her baby" around the sorsoran area.

Appreciate more sharing of info and to tap more knowledge from fellow collectors. Thanks in advance!

HanaChu69

Alam Shah · 5th June 2007, 05:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HanaChu69

Hi,

I’m a regular guest to warung kopi but somehow this thread has caught my interest. I always have great fascination for patrem and noticed the cool pictures being posted here...

Welcome to the forum, Hana.

Lately our newer members had showered us with many beautiful pieces and opened up interesting topics with many visual delights.

ganjawulung · 5th June 2007, 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HanaChu69

... I like best the piece with abstract of "a mother sitting, taking care of her baby" around the sorsoran area...

Hi Hana,
Welcome to the forum. This "maternity" pamor welcomes you too...

Ganjawulung

HanaChu69 · 6th June 2007, 02:50 PM

Greetings everyone,

Alam Shah – Thank you for the warm welcome. I realized that there are quite a handful of familiar collectors here who participated in other keris forums as well. Hmm..that’s the beauty of networking with diversified culture and languages..

I have to agree that the latest topics are getting my attention too especially the one on “keris and spirit”.

Ganjawulung – Thank you for the creative welcome and I like the new term used “maternity” pamor..I wonder what significance it has in your life. Is there any miracle in you getting more children and being productive?

Oh..I’m curious as to why do you need to renew the “greneng”. My surprise to see such action is allowed in Solo but not in Yogya. Are there any specific reasons? My preferences are for older blade and the more jaded the better. Btw, what is your understanding of Majapahit patrem?

Thanks,
HanaChu69

P.S – I’m new to the keris world and apologized for the many questions asked.

David · 6th June 2007, 03:39 PM

Welcome Hana. For some reason i also seem to have a special interest in patrem.

Don't be afraid to ask too many questions. That is how we all learn. And just because you are new to the keris world doesn't mean you have nothing to offer yourself. I look forward to your continuing participation.

HanaChu69 · 8th June 2007, 09:02 PM

Hi David,

Thank you for your kind understanding. I want to be clear on certain guidelines in asking too many questions. If more newbies like me were to come on board, I’m sure this warung will be chaotic. By then, I think you will prefer to have more ghost readers than members being too talkative.

I’m thankful to Ganjawulung who has created this thread to bring forth the discussion on patrem. To date, I’m still reading on them. I will continue my participation as long as I’m welcome here.

HanaChu69

22nd May 2007, 05:33 PM	#1
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	P a t r e m -- The Smaller Keris Dear All, Certainly, this is not a scene in Golgotha. I just want so share with you all about the Smaller Keris the Javanese call it as "patrem". So small, that people often call the patrem as "keris for women". The size is about -- in Javanese word: "sekilan". Or the size of spreading fingers, from thumb to the other end of the finger (I miss my English word for my smallest finger)... The patrem's dhapur is usually very simple: straight and no much details (ricikan). Mostly, dhapur "brojol", "tilamupih", "tilamsari". But sometimes "naga" motives too. This time, I will show you a keris which was reshaped (I don't know the exact word of Javanese "dibesut" or "keris besutan" in English) by may favorite Solonese keris-maker, Sukamdi. Almost not changed the size, and certainly not change the ricikan (details) or added something in the blade, except renew the "greneng" (I don't even know the right English word for this, please David). So actually, the form is still Majapahit patrem, but seems very brand new. Sorry for to do that. Because, such action is allowed in Solonese people, but prohibited in the neighboring city, Yogyakarta. Very sorry for that... Ganjawulung

22nd May 2007, 05:59 PM	#2
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	P a t r e m I am so sorry, these are the pictures... Attached Images

22nd May 2007, 10:22 PM	#3
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	Patrem with Cirebonese Hilt This patrem bears naga motive, but the very simple naga. The hilt is Cirebonese. And the sheath is a small "sandang walikat" style, made of forest-mango (mangga hutan) wood. The blade is still in original form... Attached Images

3rd June 2007, 07:45 AM	#11
HanaChu69 Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Singapore Posts: 29	Cool!! Hi, I’m a regular guest to warung kopi but somehow this thread has caught my interest. I always have great fascination for patrem and noticed the cool pictures being posted here...very interesting indeed! I like best the piece with abstract of "a mother sitting, taking care of her baby" around the sorsoran area. Appreciate more sharing of info and to tap more knowledge from fellow collectors. Thanks in advance! HanaChu69

6th June 2007, 02:50 PM	#14
HanaChu69 Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Singapore Posts: 29	Cool!! Greetings everyone, Alam Shah – Thank you for the warm welcome. I realized that there are quite a handful of familiar collectors here who participated in other keris forums as well. Hmm..that’s the beauty of networking with diversified culture and languages.. I have to agree that the latest topics are getting my attention too especially the one on “keris and spirit”. Ganjawulung – Thank you for the creative welcome and I like the new term used “maternity” pamor..I wonder what significance it has in your life. Is there any miracle in you getting more children and being productive? Oh..I’m curious as to why do you need to renew the “greneng”. My surprise to see such action is allowed in Solo but not in Yogya. Are there any specific reasons? My preferences are for older blade and the more jaded the better. Btw, what is your understanding of Majapahit patrem? Thanks, HanaChu69 P.S – I’m new to the keris world and apologized for the many questions asked.

23rd May 2007, 06:26 AM	#5
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	Thanks David, I don't even have a Sumatran keris or sheath. Hilts, maybe I have. I am sorry for my "Indonesian" English in this forum (In-glish)...

23rd May 2007, 10:24 AM	#6
Newsteel Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 132	Patrem keris may not be necessarily for a woman. It could also meant for a young boy (age 7-12 yrs old). Olden days, being a small boy was to play and sometime helps their parent at work, other than schooling. Having the first keris (mostly keris patrem) is their first so-called responsibility, that is to take good care of that keris. But this has another depth meaning. A task so as not to 'play around' with the keris (fighting, create trouble, harm or bullying others). Simply said a father would want his boy to build his character to be a responsible and wise man.

23rd May 2007, 11:52 AM	#8
Raden Usman Djogja Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 199	Gonjo, You have a lot of nice and good collection. Us

6th June 2007, 03:39 PM	#15
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,250	Welcome Hana. For some reason i also seem to have a special interest in patrem. Don't be afraid to ask too many questions. That is how we all learn. And just because you are new to the keris world doesn't mean you have nothing to offer yourself. I look forward to your continuing participation.

8th June 2007, 09:02 PM	#16
HanaChu69 Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Singapore Posts: 29	Cool!! Hi David, Thank you for your kind understanding. I want to be clear on certain guidelines in asking too many questions. If more newbies like me were to come on board, I’m sure this warung will be chaotic. By then, I think you will prefer to have more ghost readers than members being too talkative. I’m thankful to Ganjawulung who has created this thread to bring forth the discussion on patrem. To date, I’m still reading on them. I will continue my participation as long as I’m welcome here. HanaChu69