Portuguese cavalry troopers sabre.

Tim Simmons · 18th October 2025, 11:19 AM

I am new to European + style of swords. I now have this Toledo export sabre. Has seen some better days with light pitting over most of the blade. Said to be influenced by the British m1821 LC sabre. I am new to these blades, It was listed as 1890s. To my eye the blade although a troopers blade so plain and functional with no frills or pomposity, is hand forged? The uneven fuller and there is some wavyness to the spine and edge. Hard to show with my photo abilities. By the 1890s Teledo sword makers had powered mill rollers. So I am assuming this sword blade is quite a bit older? It is in serviable condition. The hilt has some interesting marks on it. I made the leather washer. I don't like the hilt bashing asgainst the scabbard. I know there are some very well read members when it comes to swords like this, info please.

Tim Simmons · Yesterday, 11:44 AM

With a hand forged blade this could quite possibly be from the Peninsular war. It is not the law that these sword only came into existance as a consequence of the British m1821.

Radboud · Yesterday, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

With a hand forged blade this could quite possibly be from the Peninsular war. It is not the law that these sword only came into existance as a consequence of the British m1821.

"Hand forged" is quite an open term. Most all blades are made by a human operator drawing the bar stock through the powered press by hand. They use dies in the press to get the fullers and overall shape correct. Then they are hand ground on grinding wheels to get the final shape.

Even before steam engines, water powered hammers were used for the vast majority of the heavy hitting.

The days of making sword blades with just two men and their hammers were long passed by the time this blade was made (and that includes the Napoleonic wars). If anything, the sheer number needed to supply an army necessicated more advanced production methods.

Looking at your sword, the blade profile is incorrect for the era of the Napoleonic wars, at this time fullers extended almost to the hilt and sabres tended to have more curve.

You can be confident that your blade is of 19th Century production. It has a later period scabbard with the single ring and if it's a good fit then they were made together.

Tim Simmons · Today, 10:43 AM

Yes powered hammers are an ancient thing. What I am on about is what seems to be the lack of use of forming rollers. This is an extract from the link.

Crop to billet.

Ryder the billet to the blade’s length and reduce its thickness.

Roll the ‘rough blade’ to pattern (there were rolls for all patterns of blades except some which were entirely hand forged).

Ryder the tang, shaping and drawing it out.

Hand-hammer the top leading edge.

Thread the tang (military: ¼ inch Whitworth thread).

Grind.

Shoulder file.

Curve the blade (if the pattern called for the blade to be curved).

Harden.

Temper and straighten.

Strike and deflection test.

Proof stamp.

Number the blade.

Polish.

Etch.

Final inspection.

Pass to fitters.

https://www.fordemilitaryantiques.co...lkinson-latham

My sword may fit in the {there were rolls for all patterns of blades except some which were entirely hand forged} form of manufacture.

18th October 2025, 11:19 AM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,913	Portuguese cavalry troopers sabre. I am new to European + style of swords. I now have this Toledo export sabre. Has seen some better days with light pitting over most of the blade. Said to be influenced by the British m1821 LC sabre. I am new to these blades, It was listed as 1890s. To my eye the blade although a troopers blade so plain and functional with no frills or pomposity, is hand forged? The uneven fuller and there is some wavyness to the spine and edge. Hard to show with my photo abilities. By the 1890s Teledo sword makers had powered mill rollers. So I am assuming this sword blade is quite a bit older? It is in serviable condition. The hilt has some interesting marks on it. I made the leather washer. I don't like the hilt bashing asgainst the scabbard. I know there are some very well read members when it comes to swords like this, info please. Attached Images Last edited by Tim Simmons; 18th October 2025 at 12:12 PM. Reason: spelling

Yesterday, 11:44 AM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,913	With a hand forged blade this could quite possibly be from the Peninsular war. It is not the law that these sword only came into existance as a consequence of the British m1821.

Today, 10:43 AM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,913	Yes powered hammers are an ancient thing. What I am on about is what seems to be the lack of use of forming rollers. This is an extract from the link. Crop to billet. Ryder the billet to the blade’s length and reduce its thickness. Roll the ‘rough blade’ to pattern (there were rolls for all patterns of blades except some which were entirely hand forged). Ryder the tang, shaping and drawing it out. Hand-hammer the top leading edge. Thread the tang (military: ¼ inch Whitworth thread). Grind. Shoulder file. Curve the blade (if the pattern called for the blade to be curved). Harden. Temper and straighten. Strike and deflection test. Proof stamp. Number the blade. Polish. Etch. Final inspection. Pass to fitters. https://www.fordemilitaryantiques.co...lkinson-latham My sword may fit in the {there were rolls for all patterns of blades except some which were entirely hand forged} form of manufacture.