Hilt Mendahk

HughChen · 2nd June 2025, 05:40 PM

In my memory, there was a thead discussing this type of hilt structure, but I can't find it anymore. Could anyone provide it?

David · 2nd June 2025, 07:04 PM

I assume you mean the selut, which is situated on the base of the hilt just above the mendhak. I don't remember if we have had a thread dedicated just to the selut, but if you enter the word into our search engine you will find 12 pages of threads where the selut is at least mentioned.

A. G. Maisey · 3rd June 2025, 12:16 AM

This does not answer your question Hugh, but it might be useful to you.

This is a selut of Surakarta style in the njeruk keprok form, it was most probably made in Purwokerto.

The material could be either silver or tin & a selut of either material will have a similar value, the white stones are probably yakut (rose cut rock crystal), the red one probably garnet.

This is not a high quality selut & you might find that the stones are held in place with adhesive, rather than being mechanically set.

HughChen · 3rd June 2025, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

This does not answer your question Hugh, but it might be useful to you.

This is a selut of Surakarta style in the njeruk keprok form, it was most probably made in Purwokerto.

The material could be either silver or tin & a selut of either material will have a similar value, the white stones are probably yakut (rose cut rock crystal), the red one probably garnet.

This is not a high quality selut & you might find that the stones are held in place with adhesive, rather than being mechanically set.

Thank you Alan, Why silver and so many stones can not make the selut a high quality one? Many similar hilts don't even have a selut, just hilt plus a small mendahk.

A. G. Maisey · 4th June 2025, 04:25 AM

Quality of workmanship & quality of materials are two different things Hugh.

This is not a bad selut, but it is a very long way from what we might consider to be "good", it is fair average pasar quality.

The white stones are very probably yakut, there is virtually no monetary value in these stones, the red stone probably garnet, again no real monetary value.

The metal might be silver, or it might be tin, either material will cost within a few dollars of each selut's price. In fact, for this sort of selut many people prefer tin because it does not tarnish and when worn, it looks like silver anyway.

The workmanship in this selut is again not bad workmanship in the section we can see, but it is very long way from good, it is also a very long way from the lowest cost selut that can be obtained. Even though this is just FAQ, it still has a value in the market place that would be comparable to a low value keris.

Any selut at all is not a low cost item. If we have a well carved iron selut on a well carved hilt with some age, we could say that the iron selut alone makes up half the value of the hilt + selut, and that value will be comparable to the value of a pretty decent keris.

If we compare a selut such as the one you have shown us, we are not looking at big money, but it will still cost as much as a low level keris, or maybe a bit more.

Now, if we go to very good selut, made as a bespoke item by a good jeweller from 22ct gold and set with brilliant cut diamonds and rubies, then we are looking at the cost of a new middle quality small motor car.

In a good quality dress keris, the value of the selut alone can exceed the combined value of all other components that make up the complete keris.

Between the bottom of the market, & the top of the market there are many graduations of value, which means that just about anybody can have a selut as a part of his keris, if he wants it.

The seluts that we see today developed from plain iron ferrules that were intended to stop a hilt splitting under pressure, & in very old keris that did use an iron ferrule, not every keris had one.

The early keris of modern form and the even earlier Keris Buda, had a metuk, just like a tombak metuk, rather than a mendak. As the use of a keris as a required part of formal dress increased, so did the complexity and elegance of keris dress increase, & the metuk was replaced with a mendak.

Early mendak were cast, sometimes bronze, or brass, or any other suitable material, but that solid cast mendak was gradually replaced by a fabricated mendak that tended to collapse under pressure, thus acting as a sort of shock absorber when a strike encountered bone or perhaps a belt buckle.

The mendak & selut is a rewarding field of study.

HughChen · 4th June 2025, 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Quality of workmanship & quality of materials are two different things Hugh.

This is not a bad selut, but it is a very long way from what we might consider to be "good", it is fair average pasar quality.

The white stones are very probably yakut, there is virtually no monetary value in these stones, the red stone probably garnet, again no real monetary value.

The metal might be silver, or it might be tin, either material will cost within a few dollars of each selut's price. In fact, for this sort of selut many people prefer tin because it does not tarnish and when worn, it looks like silver anyway.

The workmanship in this selut is again not bad workmanship in the section we can see, but it is very long way from good, it is also a very long way from the lowest cost selut that can be obtained. Even though this is just FAQ, it still has a value in the market place that would be comparable to a low value keris.

Any selut at all is not a low cost item. If we have a well carved iron selut on a well carved hilt with some age, we could say that the iron selut alone makes up half the value of the hilt + selut, and that value will be comparable to the value of a pretty decent keris.

If we compare a selut such as the one you have shown us, we are not looking at big money, but it will still cost as much as a low level keris, or maybe a bit more.

Now, if we go to very good selut, made as a bespoke item by a good jeweller from 22ct gold and set with brilliant cut diamonds and rubies, then we are looking at the cost of a new middle quality small motor car.

In a good quality dress keris, the value of the selut alone can exceed the combined value of all other components that make up the complete keris.

Between the bottom of the market, & the top of the market there are many graduations of value, which means that just about anybody can have a selut as a part of his keris, if he wants it.

The seluts that we see today developed from plain iron ferrules that were intended to stop a hilt splitting under pressure, & in very old keris that did use an iron ferrule, not every keris had one.

The early keris of modern form and the even earlier Keris Buda, had a metuk, just like a tombak metuk, rather than a mendak. As the use of a keris as a required part of formal dress increased, so did the complexity and elegance of keris dress increase, & the metuk was replaced with a mendak.

Early mendak were cast, sometimes bronze, or brass, or any other suitable material, but that solid cast mendak was gradually replaced by a fabricated mendak that tended to collapse under pressure, thus acting as a sort of shock absorber when a strike encountered bone or perhaps a belt buckle.

The mendak & selut is a rewarding field of study.

Hello， Alan， in close examination, I find the setting technique employed is bezel setting rather than gluing. Does this make it a high quality one?

HughChen · 3rd June 2025, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

I assume you mean the selut, which is situated on the base of the hilt just above the mendhak. I don't remember if we have had a thread dedicated just to the selut, but if you enter the word into our search engine you will find 12 pages of threads where the selut is at least mentioned.

Thank you David, I find the thread I mean. It's not all about the selut, some discussion is concerned with the form of the selut. Some mentions that if the upper rim is curved or scalloped, the keris will be of high quality. https://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...=chinese+deity

HughChen · 17th June 2025, 05:18 AM

How to ID the entire Keris

Sajen · 17th June 2025, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HughChen

How to ID the entire Keris

Javanese in all parts. Scabbard is the Sandang Walikat style.

A. G. Maisey · 18th June 2025, 01:02 AM

Yes, this description by Detlef is accurate, but we can take it a bit further.

The sandang walikat wrongko is an East Javanese form, the hilt is from, or influenced by Central Javanese Solo/Surakarta style, the selut is njeruk keprok form, the mendak is a kendit form. In English we could call this style of hilt a "planar" form, this form was initiated in Cirebon and became popular amongst young noblemen there, before being taken to Central Jawa when the kingdom of Pajang was established.

The dhapur(form) of the blade is Brojol, it is difficult to assign a classification to this blade from a photo, but it seems as if it could be Tuban-Pajajaran, the pamor is remnant wos wutah (beras wutah/scattered rice grains).

I think that's about all I can say about what I believe I can see in the photos.

HughChen · 18th June 2025, 01:56 AM

Thank you Alan and Sajen.
Very thorough elaboration. I sometimes see many different pamor elaboration and those introduction says different pamor has different magic function. But it seems that most pamor is just wos wutah.

A. G. Maisey · 18th June 2025, 04:03 AM

True Hugh.

and wos wutah also has a talismanic value, which is that the custodian of the wos wutah keris will always have sufficient to eat & not know hunger.

wos wutah is known as "mlumah" = "laying down" (with the face up) type pamor & is not difficult to make.

once we get into the other type of pamor, "miring" we enter very difficult territory, no pamor miring is easy or low cost to make.

2nd June 2025, 05:40 PM	#1
HughChen Member Join Date: Aug 2024 Location: China Posts: 175	Hilt Mendahk In my memory, there was a thead discussing this type of hilt structure, but I can't find it anymore. Could anyone provide it? Attached Images

17th June 2025, 05:18 AM	#8
HughChen Member Join Date: Aug 2024 Location: China Posts: 175	One more questtion:Keris ID How to ID the entire Keris Attached Images

2nd June 2025, 07:04 PM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,227	I assume you mean the selut, which is situated on the base of the hilt just above the mendhak. I don't remember if we have had a thread dedicated just to the selut, but if you enter the word into our search engine you will find 12 pages of threads where the selut is at least mentioned.

3rd June 2025, 12:16 AM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,043	This does not answer your question Hugh, but it might be useful to you. This is a selut of Surakarta style in the njeruk keprok form, it was most probably made in Purwokerto. The material could be either silver or tin & a selut of either material will have a similar value, the white stones are probably yakut (rose cut rock crystal), the red one probably garnet. This is not a high quality selut & you might find that the stones are held in place with adhesive, rather than being mechanically set.

4th June 2025, 04:25 AM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,043	Quality of workmanship & quality of materials are two different things Hugh. This is not a bad selut, but it is a very long way from what we might consider to be "good", it is fair average pasar quality. The white stones are very probably yakut, there is virtually no monetary value in these stones, the red stone probably garnet, again no real monetary value. The metal might be silver, or it might be tin, either material will cost within a few dollars of each selut's price. In fact, for this sort of selut many people prefer tin because it does not tarnish and when worn, it looks like silver anyway. The workmanship in this selut is again not bad workmanship in the section we can see, but it is very long way from good, it is also a very long way from the lowest cost selut that can be obtained. Even though this is just FAQ, it still has a value in the market place that would be comparable to a low value keris. Any selut at all is not a low cost item. If we have a well carved iron selut on a well carved hilt with some age, we could say that the iron selut alone makes up half the value of the hilt + selut, and that value will be comparable to the value of a pretty decent keris. If we compare a selut such as the one you have shown us, we are not looking at big money, but it will still cost as much as a low level keris, or maybe a bit more. Now, if we go to very good selut, made as a bespoke item by a good jeweller from 22ct gold and set with brilliant cut diamonds and rubies, then we are looking at the cost of a new middle quality small motor car. In a good quality dress keris, the value of the selut alone can exceed the combined value of all other components that make up the complete keris. Between the bottom of the market, & the top of the market there are many graduations of value, which means that just about anybody can have a selut as a part of his keris, if he wants it. The seluts that we see today developed from plain iron ferrules that were intended to stop a hilt splitting under pressure, & in very old keris that did use an iron ferrule, not every keris had one. The early keris of modern form and the even earlier Keris Buda, had a metuk, just like a tombak metuk, rather than a mendak. As the use of a keris as a required part of formal dress increased, so did the complexity and elegance of keris dress increase, & the metuk was replaced with a mendak. Early mendak were cast, sometimes bronze, or brass, or any other suitable material, but that solid cast mendak was gradually replaced by a fabricated mendak that tended to collapse under pressure, thus acting as a sort of shock absorber when a strike encountered bone or perhaps a belt buckle. The mendak & selut is a rewarding field of study.

18th June 2025, 01:02 AM	#10
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,043	Yes, this description by Detlef is accurate, but we can take it a bit further. The sandang walikat wrongko is an East Javanese form, the hilt is from, or influenced by Central Javanese Solo/Surakarta style, the selut is njeruk keprok form, the mendak is a kendit form. In English we could call this style of hilt a "planar" form, this form was initiated in Cirebon and became popular amongst young noblemen there, before being taken to Central Jawa when the kingdom of Pajang was established. The dhapur(form) of the blade is Brojol, it is difficult to assign a classification to this blade from a photo, but it seems as if it could be Tuban-Pajajaran, the pamor is remnant wos wutah (beras wutah/scattered rice grains). I think that's about all I can say about what I believe I can see in the photos.

18th June 2025, 01:56 AM	#11
HughChen Member Join Date: Aug 2024 Location: China Posts: 175	Thank you Alan and Sajen. Very thorough elaboration. I sometimes see many different pamor elaboration and those introduction says different pamor has different magic function. But it seems that most pamor is just wos wutah.

18th June 2025, 04:03 AM	#12
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,043	True Hugh. and wos wutah also has a talismanic value, which is that the custodian of the wos wutah keris will always have sufficient to eat & not know hunger. wos wutah is known as "mlumah" = "laying down" (with the face up) type pamor & is not difficult to make. once we get into the other type of pamor, "miring" we enter very difficult territory, no pamor miring is easy or low cost to make.