Brass hilted kris for comment

wolviex · 5th February 2005, 11:23 AM

Dear Friends!
On the pages of old forum I have presented a few pieces of Visayan weapons, plus something more, from Krakow's National Museum (Poland). I think now it is the time to bring you more pieces from my museum, leaving for a while european sabres, while it's seem that Radu is not present here lately. This time I would like to foucs on krises. But unfortunately, in my museum are only

few pieces of this beautiful weapons. We're poorer than poorest kris collector. It's not the shame I think, while the main subject of our collection lays else where. But this entail some of the problems for me. There is NO book on this subject around me I could learn anything about this weapons. Even basic literature is out of my reach, and at this moment there is no chance to bring it for me from aboard. So you're are my only hope. The multitude of text about krises at this forum is very helpful, but generates another problem - there is so much of it, that there is no time to learn everything, and most of you are using very definite language, sometimes unintelligible for begginers like me, because of multitude of appellations. So the first question is, what is the best place in internet, to learn the dictionary of krise's names?

This kris which I would like to present to you as the first one, is interesting because of brass hilt. The hilt is partially damaged, that's a shame, but this let us to learn how it was made. The hilt is wrapped with wood (attached with small nails or rivets), where is a brass wire attached from underneath, and then wrapped around the hilt, interweaved with brass strip. It looks very nice from me, what You all keris experts and lovers are thinking about it? The grip is very well modeled, with a rib on two opposite sides,and thickening at the middle. So the cross-section of the hilt is not round but oval. The pommel (in european meaning

) is worth of seeing too, with a brass "snake-like", engraved piece.
I won't discribe the blade and the ring at the hilt, I think you'll know the best what is it, and what is worth of comment. Feel free to discuss it, because I need your help to learn more about it.

Few more facts: it's bacame property of National Museum just after the II World War, so I think it was brought to Europe not later, but around 30's or 20's of 20th century. Maybe you'll find this older. The blade is still sharp, under the open-worked ring is a bone one.

Its measurements:
Lenght of the blade: 35,5 cm (13,9 '')
lenght of the hilt: 11,7 cm (4,6'')
"pommel": 4,5 x 3,7 cm (1,7'' x 1,4'')
width of the blade at the hilt: 8,5 cm (3,3'')
thickness of the blade at the hilt: 0,9 cm (0,35'')

And please, explait me everything like for the baby

or just direct me somewhere for some vocabulary

Best regards!

Yannis · 5th February 2005, 01:28 PM

Defently I am not the right person to answer this

, but I found this page very helpful:
http://home1.pacific.net.sg/~dspf/

There are more in parent site of this forum
http://www.vikingsword.com/ethsword/

Battara · 5th February 2005, 01:47 PM

Your keris is from Bali. The dapor, blade smoothness and hilt are all Balinese. Shame that the hilt is in the shape it is in. Others can tell you more about this. The mendak (ring between the blade and hilt) is not typical Balinese and seems to be made of silver and was a later addition.

Alam Shah · 5th February 2005, 01:59 PM

First impression...It's a Balinese keris.
Hilt: danganan Bali ...
Hilt ring: mendak cincin...(european design...i think)
Damascus pattern : Pamor ngulit Semangko

(Note: danganan = ukiran)

Henk · 5th February 2005, 04:18 PM

It is a balinese keris. I thought this ukiran was called grantim. Is the copper gilded? A shame that it is so badly damaged.

wolviex · 5th February 2005, 05:41 PM

Thank you for your replies so far, but... well.... is good or bad one ?? How do you judge this kris ??

Battara · 5th February 2005, 06:12 PM

If someone offered me this for sale, I would refuse it because of the damage on the hilt and the mendak. The mendak (ring) is not a problem to replace, however, the hilt is a different story. It would either have to be replaced or it would need major restoration from someone on Bali. I must also note that the rest of the dress, like the scabbard, would need to be present as well.

5th February 2005, 11:23 AM	#1
wolviex Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Poland, Krakow Posts: 418	Brass hilted kris for comment Dear Friends! On the pages of old forum I have presented a few pieces of Visayan weapons, plus something more, from Krakow's National Museum (Poland). I think now it is the time to bring you more pieces from my museum, leaving for a while european sabres, while it's seem that Radu is not present here lately. This time I would like to foucs on krises. But unfortunately, in my museum are only few pieces of this beautiful weapons. We're poorer than poorest kris collector. It's not the shame I think, while the main subject of our collection lays else where. But this entail some of the problems for me. There is NO book on this subject around me I could learn anything about this weapons. Even basic literature is out of my reach, and at this moment there is no chance to bring it for me from aboard. So you're are my only hope. The multitude of text about krises at this forum is very helpful, but generates another problem - there is so much of it, that there is no time to learn everything, and most of you are using very definite language, sometimes unintelligible for begginers like me, because of multitude of appellations. So the first question is, what is the best place in internet, to learn the dictionary of krise's names? This kris which I would like to present to you as the first one, is interesting because of brass hilt. The hilt is partially damaged, that's a shame, but this let us to learn how it was made. The hilt is wrapped with wood (attached with small nails or rivets), where is a brass wire attached from underneath, and then wrapped around the hilt, interweaved with brass strip. It looks very nice from me, what You all keris experts and lovers are thinking about it? The grip is very well modeled, with a rib on two opposite sides,and thickening at the middle. So the cross-section of the hilt is not round but oval. The pommel (in european meaning ) is worth of seeing too, with a brass "snake-like", engraved piece. I won't discribe the blade and the ring at the hilt, I think you'll know the best what is it, and what is worth of comment. Feel free to discuss it, because I need your help to learn more about it. Few more facts: it's bacame property of National Museum just after the II World War, so I think it was brought to Europe not later, but around 30's or 20's of 20th century. Maybe you'll find this older. The blade is still sharp, under the open-worked ring is a bone one. Its measurements: Lenght of the blade: 35,5 cm (13,9 '') lenght of the hilt: 11,7 cm (4,6'') "pommel": 4,5 x 3,7 cm (1,7'' x 1,4'') width of the blade at the hilt: 8,5 cm (3,3'') thickness of the blade at the hilt: 0,9 cm (0,35'') And please, explait me everything like for the baby or just direct me somewhere for some vocabulary Best regards! Attached Images

5th February 2005, 01:59 PM	#4
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	First impression...It's a Balinese keris. Hilt: danganan Bali ... Hilt ring: mendak cincin...(european design...i think) Damascus pattern : Pamor ngulit Semangko (Note: danganan = ukiran) Last edited by Alam Shah; 6th February 2005 at 03:32 AM. Reason: clarification of this post

5th February 2005, 01:28 PM	#2
Yannis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Athens Greece Posts: 479	Defently I am not the right person to answer this , but I found this page very helpful: http://home1.pacific.net.sg/~dspf/ There are more in parent site of this forum http://www.vikingsword.com/ethsword/

5th February 2005, 01:47 PM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	Your keris is from Bali. The dapor, blade smoothness and hilt are all Balinese. Shame that the hilt is in the shape it is in. Others can tell you more about this. The mendak (ring between the blade and hilt) is not typical Balinese and seems to be made of silver and was a later addition.

5th February 2005, 04:18 PM	#5
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	It is a balinese keris. I thought this ukiran was called grantim. Is the copper gilded? A shame that it is so badly damaged.

5th February 2005, 05:41 PM	#6
wolviex Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Poland, Krakow Posts: 418	Thank you for your replies so far, but... well.... is good or bad one ?? How do you judge this kris ??

5th February 2005, 06:12 PM	#7
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	If someone offered me this for sale, I would refuse it because of the damage on the hilt and the mendak. The mendak (ring) is not a problem to replace, however, the hilt is a different story. It would either have to be replaced or it would need major restoration from someone on Bali. I must also note that the rest of the dress, like the scabbard, would need to be present as well.