Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > European Armoury
User Name
Password
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 29th September 2017, 08:20 AM   #1
Johan van Zyl
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: I live in Gordon's Bay, a village in the Western Cape Province in South Africa.
Posts: 112
Default Roman arrowheads or not

Dear forum friends, I got this brass/copper object from an antique dealer friend, who suggested it to be a Roman arrow head. I do not know how trustworthy this suggestion is. Please see the pics, with a ballpoint pen for scale.

I gently probed the crud from the hole, and the third pic shows the hole more clearly. If this is a Roman arrow head, I fail to see how it could have been firmly affixed to the shaft...?

Please let me know what you think.

Johan
Attached Images
   
Johan van Zyl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th September 2017, 11:05 AM   #2
Roland_M
Member
 
Roland_M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Germany
Posts: 380
Default

Johan,

yes your arrow-head looks like of greek or roman origin.

Here are some examples of authentic greek-roman arrow-heads.


Roland
Attached Images
 
Roland_M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th September 2017, 08:56 AM   #3
Johan van Zyl
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: I live in Gordon's Bay, a village in the Western Cape Province in South Africa.
Posts: 112
Default

Thank you, Roland. I am relieved.

Looking at your picture, I get the feeling that these arrowheads would have remained in the enemy's body after the arrow had struck, and that "medical assistance" afterwards would have included digging the arrowhead out.

With the attachment of the shaft to the arrowhead as flimsy as it looks, if the arrow is extracted, the head would stay behind, I think.

I suppose some collector or student of ancient history would have reconstructed such a Greek-Roman arrow by now, to show the complete item? The shaft would have to be sharpened for insertion into the little hole in the arrowhead. Maybe they used some natural glue or resin.

Just wondering...
Johan van Zyl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th September 2017, 09:04 AM   #4
Victrix
Member
 
Victrix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Sweden
Posts: 88
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johan van Zyl
Thank you, Roland. I am relieved.

Looking at your picture, I get the feeling that these arrowheads would have remained in the enemy's body after the arrow had struck, and that "medical assistance" afterwards would have included digging the arrowhead out.

With the attachment of the shaft to the arrowhead as flimsy as it looks, if the arrow is extracted, the head would stay behind, I think.

I suppose some collector or student of ancient history would have reconstructed such a Greek-Roman arrow by now, to show the complete item? The shaft would have to be sharpened for insertion into the little hole in the arrowhead. Maybe they used some natural glue or resin.

Just wondering...


I had exactly the same thoughts. Also, I wonder if the ridges on the arrow head are meant to act like "fins" to help stabilize the arrow during its flight, or perhaps enhance its armour piercing properties?
Victrix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th September 2017, 01:46 PM   #5
Johan van Zyl
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: I live in Gordon's Bay, a village in the Western Cape Province in South Africa.
Posts: 112
Default

Victrix, I think the ridges are there not to cut the flesh, like in modern arrowheads, because they seem to have been made dull, even when new. I think they are there to increase the diameter of the head to maximize wound entry size, at the same time to increase the weight of the head marginally so that the arrow has mass and can travel far enough.

I like what you say about the armour-piercing properties, but do not agree (yet) that the ridges could act as stabilizing fins. But then, I have been known to err, big time!

Johan
Johan van Zyl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th September 2017, 06:09 PM   #6
kronckew
Member
 
kronckew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: CSA Consulate, Rm. 101, Glos. UK: p.s. - Real Dogs Have Feathering.
Posts: 2,410
Default

there's a ton of these coming from ukraine on ebay. lots of videos on how to cast your own, and they're readily available nice and shiny rather than aged. i'd be leery of any coming from there, or the balkans, another source of cheap bronze 'antiques' cast from mouldings of originals, warts and all. be very careful of any with tiny holes for arrow shafts like those above. someone hasn't bothered to drill out the sockets. and war arrows could have half- inch (12.5mm) shafts.

i have an friend in canada that makes arrows with the modern versions of these and shoots them from his horse-bow. (new cast ones below)

the design of the points was used from ancient times, and ones much like these in steel were on the mary rose of henry 8th, for use with their 100lb+ longbows. (also illustrated below)

they had sharp edges to widen the wound channel. modern hunters use a trilobed head for the same reason. it also is better for going thru shoulder blade or a rib cage, where a broad arrow head perpendicular to the run of the ribs might need to cut thru 2 ribs to go thru. quite easy to sharpen too, just rub them on a flat rock 2 edges at the same time. a sharp 60 degree edge will cut as well as a 25. pine resin glue works fine to hold them on the tapered ends.
Attached Images
  

Last edited by kronckew : 30th September 2017 at 06:37 PM.
kronckew is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 02:58 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.