Another axe to grind

harrywagner · 21st November 2015, 04:18 PM

I've spent some time looking at past posts of Tabars and Battle Axes. It's not a bad way to spend a few hours. There are some interesting ones that have been posted here. However, I could not find one that is a close match for this one. Does anyone recognize it? The seller thought it was Indian or Persian and probably 19th. Thanks in advance for any help.

Harry

kronckew · 21st November 2015, 05:18 PM

most with those two copper/brass inlays near the eye socket are afghani i suspect.

it looks like the join between the eye socket and the blade tang is a fillet arc weld, not a good sign. could be a repair. wouldn't trust it not to break there in use. blade looks nice & thick tho, not flat sheet like in a parade axe.

i suspect also it's fairly new & for 'those who travel'.

a 'top' view thru the eye would be informative too. dimensions?

estcrh · 21st November 2015, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

most with those two copper/brass inlays near the eye socket are afghani i suspect.

it looks like the join between the eye socket and the blade tang is a fillet arc weld, not a good sign. could be a repair. wouldn't trust it not to break there in use. blade looks nice & thick tho, not flat sheet like in a parade axe.

i suspect also it's fairly new & for 'those who travel'.

a 'top' view thru the eye would be informative too. dimensions?

While I have not seen this exact type it is very similar in shape and socket to other axe said to be from Afganistan.

Battara · 22nd November 2015, 12:53 AM

I agree this is Afgani....

Oliver Pinchot · 22nd November 2015, 12:58 AM

It is Afghan, contemporary work.

harrywagner · 22nd November 2015, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

most with those two copper/brass inlays near the eye socket are afghani i suspect.

it looks like the join between the eye socket and the blade tang is a fillet arc weld, not a good sign. could be a repair. wouldn't trust it not to break there in use. blade looks nice & thick tho, not flat sheet like in a parade axe.

i suspect also it's fairly new & for 'those who travel'.

a 'top' view thru the eye would be informative too. dimensions?

Thanks Kronckew. Here are a few more photos. I have not been able to determine if that spot where the blade is joined to the socket is a weld or not. Please let me know what you think.

Oliver - regarding it's age - this piece does not look recently made to me. If it is, then I would call it a fake since (IMO) it would have had to have been deliberately distressed to look like it does. I am OK with that. It will not be my first fake, but before I catalog it as such I would like to see something to backup this assertion. Maybe that should be a forum rule? Thanks.

kronckew · 22nd November 2015, 04:21 PM

the socket eye looks like it was made from a flat bar wrapped around a rod to form the ring, the line of holes just below the tang junction seem to indicate that, and their appears to be a line you can see where the seam may have been, the tang then appears to be welded to the ring, covering half the join line. the afghans are adept at doing this, it may be an antique hammer welded piece. after all they make lee-enfields, martini-henrys and even ak47s from scrap steel.

an accomplished smith may be able to make it from a a single piece of steel with an eye punch and lots of hammering, but i'm assuming the worst.

a more secure method frequently used would be to form a ring with an extension of the tang wrapped around a mandrel then hammer welded to itself. you wind up with a wedge shaped blade where the end is hammered down more and more as they cover the tang. some fancy ones get an inserted edge of harder steel, but normally the eye/tang area is softer steel than the edge or a differentially hardened edge.

here's my munitions grade version of yours showing the socket which is wrapped around a mandrel then hammer welded, quick and dirty no frills. well, maybe a couple of X's & I's

(note to self - finish re hafting it. i need to get off my butt.

)

harrywagner · 22nd November 2015, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

the socket eye looks like it was made from a flat bar wrapped around a rod to form the ring, the line of holes just below the tang junction seem to indicate that, and their appears to be a line you can see where the seam may have been, the tang then appears to be welded to the ring, covering half the join line. the afghans are adept at doing this, it may be an antique hammer welded piece. after all they make lee-enfields, martini-henrys and even ak47s from scrap steel.

an accomplished smith may be able to make it from a a single piece of steel with an eye punch and lots of hammering, but i'm assuming the worst.

Many thanks. I think that is exactly how this one was made. I'm going to put this one down as Afghan and contemporary, and then add it to my wall of shame. Thanks again to you and others for the comments. I am glad I asked. I was way off with this one.

fernando · 22nd November 2015, 06:31 PM

Strange similarity in shape:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...highlight=CORK

21st November 2015, 04:18 PM	#1
harrywagner Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Posts: 373	Another axe to grind I've spent some time looking at past posts of Tabars and Battle Axes. It's not a bad way to spend a few hours. There are some interesting ones that have been posted here. However, I could not find one that is a close match for this one. Does anyone recognize it? The seller thought it was Indian or Persian and probably 19th. Thanks in advance for any help. Harry Attached Images

22nd November 2015, 04:21 PM	#7
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,154	the socket eye looks like it was made from a flat bar wrapped around a rod to form the ring, the line of holes just below the tang junction seem to indicate that, and their appears to be a line you can see where the seam may have been, the tang then appears to be welded to the ring, covering half the join line. the afghans are adept at doing this, it may be an antique hammer welded piece. after all they make lee-enfields, martini-henrys and even ak47s from scrap steel. an accomplished smith may be able to make it from a a single piece of steel with an eye punch and lots of hammering, but i'm assuming the worst. a more secure method frequently used would be to form a ring with an extension of the tang wrapped around a mandrel then hammer welded to itself. you wind up with a wedge shaped blade where the end is hammered down more and more as they cover the tang. some fancy ones get an inserted edge of harder steel, but normally the eye/tang area is softer steel than the edge or a differentially hardened edge. here's my munitions grade version of yours showing the socket which is wrapped around a mandrel then hammer welded, quick and dirty no frills. well, maybe a couple of X's & I's (note to self - finish re hafting it. i need to get off my butt. ) Attached Images

21st November 2015, 05:18 PM	#2
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,154	most with those two copper/brass inlays near the eye socket are afghani i suspect. it looks like the join between the eye socket and the blade tang is a fillet arc weld, not a good sign. could be a repair. wouldn't trust it not to break there in use. blade looks nice & thick tho, not flat sheet like in a parade axe. i suspect also it's fairly new & for 'those who travel'. a 'top' view thru the eye would be informative too. dimensions?

22nd November 2015, 12:53 AM	#4
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,154	I agree this is Afgani....

22nd November 2015, 12:58 AM	#5
Oliver Pinchot Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 456	It is Afghan, contemporary work.

22nd November 2015, 06:31 PM	#9
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,666	Strange similarity in shape: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...highlight=CORK