Turkish shamshir ?

Andy Davis · 10th March 2006, 06:57 PM

Hello all
Any comments on this. Bit tatty in the grip but all there and the blade is very tasty.
I love local auctions

Cheers
Andy

Tim Simmons · 10th March 2006, 07:12 PM

Is that intruders blood we can see on the carpet

TVV · 10th March 2006, 08:15 PM

A great, serious fighting sword, congratulations. To me, however, it seems Syrian rather than Turkish, and also I am not quite sure if "shamshir" would be an appropriate name for a fullered, slightly curved blade. But then, I do not know what else to call it as saif appears to be too generic of a term.
Regards,
Teodor

ariel · 10th March 2006, 08:33 PM

I fully agree with Teodore: Syrian. This is based on the down-turned pommel and wire covering the upper langet.
The blade , I think, is trade, Persian.
I have seen a lot of such swords, Syrian, Afghani etc and had the same question:this is not a shamshir in a strict sense , because it is not curved enough, but what should we call it? Yes, Saif is broad and generic, but I just cannot find another word.

ham · 11th March 2006, 12:53 AM

The hilting certainly is Syrian type, though Dimashq or Damascus type would be more accurate since that was where most of these were done.

The blade, however, is not Persian work. It is either a European trade blade or a Caucasian copy thereof; Elgood addreses this specifically in his Arab arms book.

Ariel, as to terminology-- are you asking by what name the original (ostensibly) bedouin owner would call this sword, or how it should be categorized by English-speaking collectors in the present?

Ham

ariel · 11th March 2006, 03:50 AM

You may be right as to the origin of the blade. Markings would help a lot.
As to the name, I guess even the locals might have called it different, just to distinguish it from other types (as, for example, large kindjal in Georgia is
called Satevari etc). Also, is there any specific "European" name? I guess not, but just in case...

10th March 2006, 06:57 PM	#1
Andy Davis Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: England, Northumberland Posts: 85	Turkish shamshir ? Hello all Any comments on this. Bit tatty in the grip but all there and the blade is very tasty. I love local auctions Cheers Andy Attached Images

10th March 2006, 07:12 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,747	Is that intruders blood we can see on the carpet

10th March 2006, 08:15 PM	#3
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,602	A great, serious fighting sword, congratulations. To me, however, it seems Syrian rather than Turkish, and also I am not quite sure if "shamshir" would be an appropriate name for a fullered, slightly curved blade. But then, I do not know what else to call it as saif appears to be too generic of a term. Regards, Teodor

10th March 2006, 08:33 PM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I fully agree with Teodore: Syrian. This is based on the down-turned pommel and wire covering the upper langet. The blade , I think, is trade, Persian. I have seen a lot of such swords, Syrian, Afghani etc and had the same question:this is not a shamshir in a strict sense , because it is not curved enough, but what should we call it? Yes, Saif is broad and generic, but I just cannot find another word.

11th March 2006, 12:53 AM	#5
ham Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 190	The hilting certainly is Syrian type, though Dimashq or Damascus type would be more accurate since that was where most of these were done. The blade, however, is not Persian work. It is either a European trade blade or a Caucasian copy thereof; Elgood addreses this specifically in his Arab arms book. Ariel, as to terminology-- are you asking by what name the original (ostensibly) bedouin owner would call this sword, or how it should be categorized by English-speaking collectors in the present? Ham

11th March 2006, 03:50 AM	#6
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	You may be right as to the origin of the blade. Markings would help a lot. As to the name, I guess even the locals might have called it different, just to distinguish it from other types (as, for example, large kindjal in Georgia is called Satevari etc). Also, is there any specific "European" name? I guess not, but just in case...