Unusual Hmong musket

Cerjak · 17th June 2015, 12:38 PM

I’m looking since a very long time for a Hmong Musket and at last I found a very nice and unusual one.
Total length is about 76 cm the bore is about 30 cal or slightly over 7mm
It ‘s look like a gun made for a children or small hunter ?
Any comment on it will be welcome.

Best
Cerjak

Cerjak · 17th June 2015, 12:40 PM

more pic

BANDOOK · 17th June 2015, 12:48 PM

GREETINGS CERJAK
HERE IS MINE AND SOME INFORMATION FOR YOU ABOUT THEM,I FIND THEM VERY PRIMITIVE AND UNUSUAL,CHEERS

MONKEY GUNS HMONG TRIBE,NORTHERN LAOS AND VIETNAM
Mao tribe guns -- Antique Laos Mao or Hmung musket

Recovered from Northern Laos. Areas accessable only by helicopter or weeks of hiking. Used mostly for hunting. These were acquired by original owner while working for the CIA in Laos/Thailand. these guns were in use as late 70s in the opium growing areas of northeast Laos. Muskets similar to these were also used by the Montnard tribes in Western South Vietnam.
Octagonal barrel tapering to muzzle,1300 mm long and longer one is 1600 mm,bore approx. 30 caliber,attached to stock with 7-8 aluminium barrel bands,

BANDOOK · 17th June 2015, 12:56 PM

A PART OF THE MONKETS TAIL IS SEEN HERE WHICH IS LIKE A TALISMAN OBJECT FOR THE TRIBE AS MONKEY MEAT IS A DELICASY
I LIKE THE POWDER FLASK AND GOES WELL AND MAKES IT COMPLETE
BEST REGARDS RAJESH

Cerjak · 17th June 2015, 04:54 PM

Hi Bandook

Thank you for you comment and pictures from your 2 nice exemplars.
This gun had been bring back by the father of the previous owner before the end of the French protectorate of Laos. I can see from the stock length that the barrel is in his original size .
I have already seen one similar short exemplar but they are definitely not common in this size
It has a nice wood patina who attest a real age for this piece ,my guess is late 19 th century or early 20 th century.
If you have the possibility it would be great to see some close pictures from your muskets ( lock and stock )
Best
CERJAK

Cerjak · 17th June 2015, 05:07 PM

more exemplar found from the net.

I ‘m astonish that they is not much literature about this type of musket. Even I did not find this musket in the George Cameron Stone's A Glossary .

nthao · 3rd March 2021, 05:23 PM

Where did you manage to find it, if you don't mind me asking? I have been looking for one for the past few years...with no luck

Willing to pay a pretty penny, but all the auctions I have seen online are several years old...hence why I am also going back to this thread after I few years haha.

Ian · 4th March 2021, 08:52 AM

nthao:

You might try private messaging or emailing Cerjak also. I have not seen him online for a while.

Ian.

Ren Ren · 8th March 2021, 04:16 PM

Such guns sometimes appear in the chronicles of the Vietnamese police. They are confiscated from poachers in the northwest of the country. Hunting for rare species of animals is a painful topic for those places

Philip · 10th March 2021, 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ren Ren

Such guns sometimes appear in the chronicles of the Vietnamese police. They are confiscated from poachers in the northwest of the country. Hunting for rare species of animals is a painful topic for those places

Rare animals -- have you been to the famous Bo Tong Xeo Restaurant in Saigon? They are known for serving all kinds of wild game, deliciously prepared of course. The region reminds me of Louisiana and it's not just the climate -- folks will shoot and eat practically anything that walks, flies, or swims and when they're done cooking it, boy is it delicious!

Ren Ren · 12th March 2021, 12:12 AM

I love Vietnamese food

but I have never been to this wonderful restaurant.

I think hunting for food is not the biggest part of the problem. Animals are killed for use in traditional medicine and magic (which are often the same thing). If I'm not mistaken, a piece of gibbon fur is suspended from Cerjak's Musket. Gibbons are sacrificed for hundreds of years when it is required to escape from adversity (for example, during a lunar and solar eclipse).

Another part of the problem is that people in the mountains have no other source of income. The government follows the path of prohibitions, but at the same time does not offer alternative ways for a dignified existence.

17th June 2015, 12:38 PM	#1
Cerjak Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: FRANCE Posts: 1,065	Unusual Hmong musket I’m looking since a very long time for a Hmong Musket and at last I found a very nice and unusual one. Total length is about 76 cm the bore is about 30 cal or slightly over 7mm It ‘s look like a gun made for a children or small hunter ? Any comment on it will be welcome. Best Cerjak Attached Images

17th June 2015, 12:40 PM	#2
Cerjak Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: FRANCE Posts: 1,065	more pic more pic Attached Images

17th June 2015, 12:48 PM	#3
BANDOOK Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: AUCKLAND,NEW ZEALAND Posts: 627	BONJOUR CERJAK GREETINGS CERJAK HERE IS MINE AND SOME INFORMATION FOR YOU ABOUT THEM,I FIND THEM VERY PRIMITIVE AND UNUSUAL,CHEERS MONKEY GUNS HMONG TRIBE,NORTHERN LAOS AND VIETNAM Mao tribe guns -- Antique Laos Mao or Hmung musket Recovered from Northern Laos. Areas accessable only by helicopter or weeks of hiking. Used mostly for hunting. These were acquired by original owner while working for the CIA in Laos/Thailand. these guns were in use as late 70s in the opium growing areas of northeast Laos. Muskets similar to these were also used by the Montnard tribes in Western South Vietnam. Octagonal barrel tapering to muzzle,1300 mm long and longer one is 1600 mm,bore approx. 30 caliber,attached to stock with 7-8 aluminium barrel bands, Attached Images

17th June 2015, 12:56 PM	#4
BANDOOK Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: AUCKLAND,NEW ZEALAND Posts: 627	SOME MORE INFO A PART OF THE MONKETS TAIL IS SEEN HERE WHICH IS LIKE A TALISMAN OBJECT FOR THE TRIBE AS MONKEY MEAT IS A DELICASY I LIKE THE POWDER FLASK AND GOES WELL AND MAKES IT COMPLETE BEST REGARDS RAJESH

17th June 2015, 05:07 PM	#6
Cerjak Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: FRANCE Posts: 1,065	other exemplar more exemplar found from the net. I ‘m astonish that they is not much literature about this type of musket. Even I did not find this musket in the George Cameron Stone's A Glossary . Attached Images

17th June 2015, 04:54 PM	#5
Cerjak Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: FRANCE Posts: 1,065	Hi Bandook Thank you for you comment and pictures from your 2 nice exemplars. This gun had been bring back by the father of the previous owner before the end of the French protectorate of Laos. I can see from the stock length that the barrel is in his original size . I have already seen one similar short exemplar but they are definitely not common in this size It has a nice wood patina who attest a real age for this piece ,my guess is late 19 th century or early 20 th century. If you have the possibility it would be great to see some close pictures from your muskets ( lock and stock ) Best CERJAK

3rd March 2021, 05:23 PM	#7
nthao Member Join Date: Feb 2021 Posts: 1	Been Searching too Where did you manage to find it, if you don't mind me asking? I have been looking for one for the past few years...with no luck Willing to pay a pretty penny, but all the auctions I have seen online are several years old...hence why I am also going back to this thread after I few years haha.

4th March 2021, 08:52 AM	#8
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,522	Moderator's comment ... nthao: You might try private messaging or emailing Cerjak also. I have not seen him online for a while. Ian.

8th March 2021, 04:16 PM	#9
Ren Ren Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Russia, Moscow Posts: 379	Such guns sometimes appear in the chronicles of the Vietnamese police. They are confiscated from poachers in the northwest of the country. Hunting for rare species of animals is a painful topic for those places

12th March 2021, 12:12 AM	#11
Ren Ren Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Russia, Moscow Posts: 379	I love Vietnamese food but I have never been to this wonderful restaurant. I think hunting for food is not the biggest part of the problem. Animals are killed for use in traditional medicine and magic (which are often the same thing). If I'm not mistaken, a piece of gibbon fur is suspended from Cerjak's Musket. Gibbons are sacrificed for hundreds of years when it is required to escape from adversity (for example, during a lunar and solar eclipse). Another part of the problem is that people in the mountains have no other source of income. The government follows the path of prohibitions, but at the same time does not offer alternative ways for a dignified existence.