Remains of a sabre?

blue lander · 16th January 2014, 06:11 PM

The seller thought it was an "african machete", but after posting a pic over on the ethnographic side the consensus is that may be a cut down European sabre with all the metal and leather taken off the hilt.

Both sides of the blade are mostly covered with a floral pattern. One side has some writing at the bottom, but it's too corroded to make out most of it. The first three letters on the first line appear to be LEC, the last two look like TE. I can't read the bottom line at all. Other than the floral pattern, there's two lions holding a shield or something with a chevron on it. I'll try to take better pictures, but the patina is very shiny so you get a lot of reflection. The edges are banged up pretty good on both sides. No fuller or anything like that.

The hilt is cracked on both sides. It looks to me like it cracked from somebody hitting something too hard with it. Sort of like what happens when you try to use a sword as a machete. The patina is weird, it's very shiny and thick.

Any idea what this might have been once? It almost looks decorative piece except that it's so beaten up.

blue lander · 17th January 2014, 02:43 AM

Wow... I gave it a vigorous cleaning with a tissue paper and some windex, and a lot more detail came out. there's actually quite a lot of detail etched into the vines and flowers and whatnot. On the opposite side of the lions and chevron there's some other figure but it's badly corroded. I think I see a boat anchor though. I still can't make out the writing at the bottom.

Edit: on second thought it looks more like an axe head than an anchor.

fernando · 17th January 2014, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue lander

Wow... I gave it a vigorous cleaning with a tissue paper and some windex, and a lot more detail came out ...

Impressive result

blue lander · 17th January 2014, 04:08 PM

Thanks! Does anybody else have any cleaning suggestions? Besides revealing more detail, I'd like to lighten the patina up a bit. Would toothpaste be advisable? I'm worried about using anything abrasive since there is still some fine detail left on some of the leaves and flowers I wouldn't want to scrub off.

I still have no idea what the decoration with the axe head is. About 2 inches higher than it is the tip of a spear with what looks like a flag draping down from it. I've made out a little more of the writing at the bottom. It seems to say :

LEC.....ETTE
...PARIS

The dots representing letters I can't make out. I bought it from a seller in France, so no surprise on the Paris part.

blue lander · 17th January 2014, 04:31 PM

Also did some cleaning on the coat of arms. There are three crosses pattee on the chevron. There may be something above and/or below the chevron, or it might just be corrosion. Hopefully windex will tell the difference. Details, like hairs on the lion, are turning yellow. Above the crest is a knight's helmet looking straight forward with a lion on top of it. It also appears to be wearing a crown but I can't make out any details of the crown whether it's open or closed or a coronet or whatnot. I've read a forward facing helmet with bar guards was reserved for kings only, but I've also read this is a 19th/20th century misconception. It seems like many "rules" of heraldry changed from century to century and location to location, and many rules were just made up by 19th century historians.

Is this sword interesting enough to pursue cleaning and identifying the markings? I'm worried it's just some tacky Victorian era fantasy piece and the decorations on it mean nothing.

Richard G · 18th January 2014, 03:34 PM

The floral pattern seems to consist of thistles; a scottish connection?
Regards
Richard

blue lander · 19th January 2014, 02:45 AM

I hadn't considered that, but it seems like a good starting point. I'll start looking at scottish coats of arms to see if I can find a match.

So far the only arms I can find with 3 crosses formee on a chevron is of a "Pecke" family in Brampton England.

16th January 2014, 06:11 PM	#1
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	Remains of a sabre? The seller thought it was an "african machete", but after posting a pic over on the ethnographic side the consensus is that may be a cut down European sabre with all the metal and leather taken off the hilt. Both sides of the blade are mostly covered with a floral pattern. One side has some writing at the bottom, but it's too corroded to make out most of it. The first three letters on the first line appear to be LEC, the last two look like TE. I can't read the bottom line at all. Other than the floral pattern, there's two lions holding a shield or something with a chevron on it. I'll try to take better pictures, but the patina is very shiny so you get a lot of reflection. The edges are banged up pretty good on both sides. No fuller or anything like that. The hilt is cracked on both sides. It looks to me like it cracked from somebody hitting something too hard with it. Sort of like what happens when you try to use a sword as a machete. The patina is weird, it's very shiny and thick. Any idea what this might have been once? It almost looks decorative piece except that it's so beaten up. Attached Images Last edited by blue lander; 16th January 2014 at 08:40 PM.

17th January 2014, 02:43 AM	#2
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	Wow... I gave it a vigorous cleaning with a tissue paper and some windex, and a lot more detail came out. there's actually quite a lot of detail etched into the vines and flowers and whatnot. On the opposite side of the lions and chevron there's some other figure but it's badly corroded. I think I see a boat anchor though. I still can't make out the writing at the bottom. Edit: on second thought it looks more like an axe head than an anchor. Attached Images Last edited by blue lander; 17th January 2014 at 03:15 AM.

17th January 2014, 04:08 PM	#4
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	Thanks! Does anybody else have any cleaning suggestions? Besides revealing more detail, I'd like to lighten the patina up a bit. Would toothpaste be advisable? I'm worried about using anything abrasive since there is still some fine detail left on some of the leaves and flowers I wouldn't want to scrub off. I still have no idea what the decoration with the axe head is. About 2 inches higher than it is the tip of a spear with what looks like a flag draping down from it. I've made out a little more of the writing at the bottom. It seems to say : LEC.....ETTE ...PARIS The dots representing letters I can't make out. I bought it from a seller in France, so no surprise on the Paris part. Attached Images

17th January 2014, 04:31 PM	#5
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	Also did some cleaning on the coat of arms. There are three crosses pattee on the chevron. There may be something above and/or below the chevron, or it might just be corrosion. Hopefully windex will tell the difference. Details, like hairs on the lion, are turning yellow. Above the crest is a knight's helmet looking straight forward with a lion on top of it. It also appears to be wearing a crown but I can't make out any details of the crown whether it's open or closed or a coronet or whatnot. I've read a forward facing helmet with bar guards was reserved for kings only, but I've also read this is a 19th/20th century misconception. It seems like many "rules" of heraldry changed from century to century and location to location, and many rules were just made up by 19th century historians. Is this sword interesting enough to pursue cleaning and identifying the markings? I'm worried it's just some tacky Victorian era fantasy piece and the decorations on it mean nothing. Attached Images Last edited by blue lander; 17th January 2014 at 07:25 PM.

18th January 2014, 03:34 PM	#6
Richard G Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 402	The floral pattern seems to consist of thistles; a scottish connection? Regards Richard

19th January 2014, 02:45 AM	#7
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	I hadn't considered that, but it seems like a good starting point. I'll start looking at scottish coats of arms to see if I can find a match. So far the only arms I can find with 3 crosses formee on a chevron is of a "Pecke" family in Brampton England.