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Old 11th June 2013, 09:59 PM   #1
Sajen
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Default Unusual gunong, from where?

Just win this very unusual gunong by ebay. First I never have seen a gunong with a handle like this, I think it's a pot whale tooth. Unfortunately is the tip broken. But what seems to my eyes much more strange is the scabbard, could this be T'Boli or Bagobo?

All comments are very appreciated.

Detlef
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Old 11th June 2013, 11:55 PM   #2
Battara
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I am wondering out loud - could this be an early version of a Sulu gunong (based on the ukkil on the wood scabbard and the fact that there is no okir on the guard)?

The catch to this theory though is the fact that the white metal mounts look newer to me.
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Old 12th June 2013, 12:08 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Battara
I am wondering out loud - could this be an early version of a Sulu gunong (based on the ukkil on the wood scabbard and the fact that there is no okir on the guard)?

The catch to this theory though is the fact that the white metal mounts look newer to me.


Hi Jose,

thank you very much for your thoughts about this gunong. Blade form look as well to my eyes like an early form. So the ukkil is Sulu, was it usual to lime the ukkil on Sulu? Ask myself if the metal mounts could be from silver and are maybe fresh polished not long ago.

Best regards,

Detlef
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Old 12th June 2013, 12:33 AM   #4
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I have always called them Sperm whales and had never heard the term "pot" whale, but apparently they are the same. I would agree that is probably the origin of this tooth as i have quite a similar one myself.
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Old 12th June 2013, 01:56 AM   #5
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That is a very small tooth for the Spermacetti Whale .
Possibly from an immature one; also possibly a smaller toothed whale .

Yes, carving work like this often was accented with lime .
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Old 12th June 2013, 03:06 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
That is a very small tooth for the Spermacetti Whale .
Possibly from an immature one; also possibly a smaller toothed whale .

Yes, carving work like this often was accented with lime .

Well, it looks about the size of mine which is definitely IDed as Sperm whale. There is a great variety of tooth sizes in a whale mouth and of course, as you point out, younger and older whales.
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Old 12th June 2013, 06:31 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David
I have always called them Sperm whales and had never heard the term "pot" whale, but apparently they are the same. I would agree that is probably the origin of this tooth as i have quite a similar one myself.



Hi David,

you are correct, in Germany we call this whale "pot whale", my mistake! But found the term "pot whale" also in a online translator.

Can you post pictures from your example?

Best regards,

Detlef
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Old 13th June 2013, 02:37 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sajen
you are correct, in Germany we call this whale "pot whale", my mistake! But found the term "pot whale" also in a online translator.
Can you post pictures from your example?

Sorry Detlef, i can't post mine as it has been made into a rather personal ritual item that i do not show around. But i am fairly certain it is the same material and when i bought mine back in the 1960s it was positively IDed as Sperm whale.
Here are some more images of Sperm whale teeth and one made into a small knife handle for a sgian dubh. The teeth in a Sperm what come in a great variety of sizes from the much larger back teeth generally used scrimshaw to small teeth in the front of the jaw.
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Old 12th June 2013, 03:08 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sajen
Hi Jose,

thank you very much for your thoughts about this gunong. Blade form look as well to my eyes like an early form. So the ukkil is Sulu, was it usual to lime the ukkil on Sulu? Ask myself if the metal mounts could be from silver and are maybe fresh polished not long ago.

Best regards,

Detlef

The metal looks like polished brass or white metal, not silver.
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Old 12th June 2013, 04:37 AM   #10
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IT COULD BE PILOT WHALE (SOMETIMES CALLED BLACK FISH) THERE ARE LARGE NUMBERS OF THEM AND THEY ARE NOTED FOR MASS STRANDINGS. BEFORE WHALEING AND THE SALE OF ALL WHALE MATERIAL WAS STOPPED THERE WERE PILOT, SPERM AND KILLER WHALE TEETH EASILY AVAILABLE.
THE OTHER POSSIBILITY IS A LARGE TIGER TOOTH I HAVE SEEN TWO GUNONG WITH TIGER TEETH POMMELS OVER THE YEARS. WHAT ARE THE MEASURMENTS ON THIS KNIFE AND THE TOOTH.
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Old 12th June 2013, 09:01 AM   #11
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Hello Detlef,

This looks like a later gunong to me: the blade might be lamianted - the luk were probably made by stock removal though; the (brass?) crosspiece also doesn't look pre-WW2 to me either.

If it is small, the pommel could come from several toothed whales as suggested. It's interesting that they used the tooth tip for attaching the blade/ferrule and filed down the base of the tooth for the pommel end.

I'd be interested to see pics of the blade if you're going to etch it!

Regards,
Kai
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Old 12th June 2013, 06:37 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VANDOO
WHAT ARE THE MEASURMENTS ON THIS KNIFE AND THE TOOTH.


Hello Barry,

there wasn't given measurements in the ebay auction but I think that it is rather small. Will post measurements when I have received it.

BTW, there have been tigers on the Philippines?

Best regards,
Detlef
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