A possible Schiavona ancestor

fernando · 3rd September 2011, 04:50 PM

Arriving end next week.
Said to date from the second half XVI century.
The basket guard resembles those of Schiavonas, giving basis to the assumption that this sword is a primitive example of such swords.
The nice sturdy pommel is however from a different school, although certainly belonging to the original setup.
The blade tip is broken, probably only for a short length, despite the fuller appears to finish at the present end. Although not so commonly seen, blades may sometimes have full length fullers. Besides, this one (blade) still has a length of 84 cms. (over 33"), longer than 'current' schiavonas, i would say. I will check better on this issue when the sword arrives.
However the more significant 'handycap', which surely influenced this sword's price, is a fissure in one side of the blade near the forte. I expect it hasn't significantly debilitated the blade's consistency. Anyhow i don't intend to practice fencing with it, and when i see it with naked eyes i may conclude that such crack was no more than the ideal accident to put its price on a 'decent' level.
Your guys coments will be so much appreciated, be them either optimist or pessimist; just hit me hard, have no mercy

I must advance that i have previously seeked backstage advice with our internal consultant Jim McDougall and Schiavona passionate Nathan Robinson from myArmoury, for whom both my recognition is addressed.

.

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fernando · 3rd September 2011, 06:38 PM

Ah, something i forgot !
My kingdom to those who can tell (or guess) the provenance of this sword; Central Europe ... Germany, Italy?

Zwielicht · 4th September 2011, 02:25 PM

I'd guess that it is Italy - the guard, as I understand, has a different build than German or landsknecht swords, but reminds closely that of a classic schiavona.

Also, what could happen with a tip of a blade? It seems to be cut or broken.

fernando · 4th September 2011, 02:39 PM

Thanks for your coments, Zwielicht.
I am waiting for the sword to have a closer look to both blade crack and the tip; i guess the tip was broken by accident and not cut for shortening.

Matchlock · 5th September 2011, 08:44 PM

Hi 'Nando,

My expert friend Ottmar says this was a North Italian variation of a very late schiavona type composed with a pommel of unusual shape, most probably put together in an arsenal for infantry armament in ca. the 1630's-40's.

Best,
Michl

fernando · 5th September 2011, 09:15 PM

Thank you so much Michl,
Also thank your friend Ottmar.
I aknowledge and will register those coments in the sword computer folder.

Norman McCormick · 6th September 2011, 04:32 PM

Hi Fernando,
Will you be getting a 'display stand' like this for your Schiavona?

My Regards,
Norman.

fernando · 6th September 2011, 05:25 PM

Hi Norman,
We don't have this type of stands in local stores. Can you organize one and send it over ?

... I'll pay you in kind

Matchlock · 6th September 2011, 08:35 PM

Oh come on, 'Nando,

I remember some fine stands you made - you could easily build Norman's!

Best,
Michl

fernando · 6th September 2011, 08:55 PM

It's not a question of putting one up, Michl, but that of a certain difficulty in acquiring the right raw materials

.

Matchlock · 6th September 2011, 10:08 PM

Brilliant!!!! I'm afraid though I can't help you out either.

3rd September 2011, 04:50 PM	#1
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	A possible Schiavona ancestor Arriving end next week. Said to date from the second half XVI century. The basket guard resembles those of Schiavonas, giving basis to the assumption that this sword is a primitive example of such swords. The nice sturdy pommel is however from a different school, although certainly belonging to the original setup. The blade tip is broken, probably only for a short length, despite the fuller appears to finish at the present end. Although not so commonly seen, blades may sometimes have full length fullers. Besides, this one (blade) still has a length of 84 cms. (over 33"), longer than 'current' schiavonas, i would say. I will check better on this issue when the sword arrives. However the more significant 'handycap', which surely influenced this sword's price, is a fissure in one side of the blade near the forte. I expect it hasn't significantly debilitated the blade's consistency. Anyhow i don't intend to practice fencing with it, and when i see it with naked eyes i may conclude that such crack was no more than the ideal accident to put its price on a 'decent' level. Your guys coments will be so much appreciated, be them either optimist or pessimist; just hit me hard, have no mercy I must advance that i have previously seeked backstage advice with our internal consultant Jim McDougall and Schiavona passionate Nathan Robinson from myArmoury, for whom both my recognition is addressed. . . Attached Images Last edited by fernando; 3rd September 2011 at 08:06 PM.

6th September 2011, 04:32 PM	#7
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,646	Hi Fernando, Will you be getting a 'display stand' like this for your Schiavona? My Regards, Norman. Attached Images

3rd September 2011, 06:38 PM	#2
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Ah, something i forgot ! My kingdom to those who can tell (or guess) the provenance of this sword; Central Europe ... Germany, Italy?

4th September 2011, 02:25 PM	#3
Zwielicht Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 26	I'd guess that it is Italy - the guard, as I understand, has a different build than German or landsknecht swords, but reminds closely that of a classic schiavona. Also, what could happen with a tip of a blade? It seems to be cut or broken.

4th September 2011, 02:39 PM	#4
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Thanks for your coments, Zwielicht. I am waiting for the sword to have a closer look to both blade crack and the tip; i guess the tip was broken by accident and not cut for shortening.

5th September 2011, 08:44 PM	#5
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi 'Nando, My expert friend Ottmar says this was a North Italian variation of a very late schiavona type composed with a pommel of unusual shape, most probably put together in an arsenal for infantry armament in ca. the 1630's-40's. Best, Michl

5th September 2011, 09:15 PM	#6
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Thank you so much Michl, Also thank your friend Ottmar. I aknowledge and will register those coments in the sword computer folder.

6th September 2011, 05:25 PM	#8
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Hi Norman, We don't have this type of stands in local stores. Can you organize one and send it over ? ... I'll pay you in kind

6th September 2011, 08:35 PM	#9
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Oh come on, 'Nando, I remember some fine stands you made - you could easily build Norman's! Best, Michl

6th September 2011, 08:55 PM	#10
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	It's not a question of putting one up, Michl, but that of a certain difficulty in acquiring the right raw materials .

6th September 2011, 10:08 PM	#11
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Brilliant!!!! I'm afraid though I can't help you out either.