Yemeni? Silver Cartridge belt or Bandolier

spiral · 1st August 2011, 11:46 AM

Hi Chaps,

I wonder if anyone here has insights into date & origin of this cartridge belt?

I am guessing Yemen but not realy my field, Any photos of such in use? I think its probably coin silver but havent tested it.

Theres variation on the lower end internal diameters of each tube, anything from 11mm to 14 mm.

I love how its been worn enough to have a slink where it fitted over someones hips.

spiral

rickystl · 1st August 2011, 04:20 PM

Hello Spiral. What a terriffic item!!! Never seen one like it. I own an old beat-up leather one - Turkish I think? Where did you ever find it?
It doesn't look like it, but could it be Egyptian? The reason I ask: You mention the inside diameter being between 11MM and 14MM. From the late 1860's through the late 1880's there was a cartridge identified as a 11MM (.43) Egyptian, used by the Egyptian Government - and others I'm sure. (There was also a 11MM Spanish cartridge). It was a bottle neck cartridge with an 11MM bullet to about 14MM at the base of the case. Hmmmm, maybe your belt was made for that cartridge? Just a thought. If you have access or know an old cartridge collector you could try different samples and see if one fits best. This would give you an approximate time frame your belt was in use. Just an idea. In any case, a great find!!! If you ever decide to part with it...........

Rick.

kahnjar1 · 1st August 2011, 07:46 PM

WOW!!! ENVY ENVY

spiral · 2nd August 2011, 09:55 AM

Cheers Rick! It does look like the .43 Egyption would proberly fit then, With a base diameter of 14mm but would guess other old blackpowder & early smokeless cartrigides would as well? As you say I need to see a cartridge collector.

Thanks Kahnjar! Do you think Yemini seems right or could it be something else?

Spiral

Atlantia · 2nd August 2011, 10:18 AM

Hi Jonathan.
Interesting thing, don't remember seeing one like it before.
Drag it along to one of the military fairs near us and you might be able to find someone with de-ac cartridges for WW1/2 rifles to try in it?
Would .303's fit?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.303_British

Michael Blalock · 2nd August 2011, 01:32 PM

It does not look Yemeni or middle eastern to me. It could be from the golden triangle.

kahnjar1 · 2nd August 2011, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spiral

Cheers Rick! It does look like the .43 Egyption would proberly fit then, With a base diameter of 14mm but would guess other old blackpowder & early smokeless cartrigides would as well? As you say I need to see a cartridge collector.

Thanks Kahnjar! Do you think Yemini seems right or could it be something else?

Spiral

I realy have no idea as to origin and have not seen anything like it before (sadly!) As to what would fit, there is a book (similar sort of thing to Gun Digest) called Cartridges of the World. This shows dimensions of all?? known cartridges split into Military, Sporting etc. I feel sure that you will be able to find someone local to you who has a copy you could borrow. I have a copy here but it would be quite a long job to sort out what would fit your belt, though if you would give me base and top diam and also cartridge length I will see if I can find anything that would fit. It could also be made to hold powder dispensers for muzzle loaders rather than complete cartridges.
Regards Stuart

spiral · 3rd August 2011, 12:12 AM

Cheers Gene took it up to a friend today who dropped a deactivated .303 into it for me, it just caught on the rim {so diameter or the fat part of tube must be about 13.5 } but I dont think thats what it was made for.

In a bandolier the base of cartridge would need to be able to be grasped I think. So someting bigger than a .303 it seems.

Thanks Stuart, theres enough variation in the sizes or how deep the rounds should sit that without someone dropping exactly the right round into it I think it would be hard to be sure. Interesting though that it could also hold powder dispensers! Thank you much though.

Great input Michael! I am a more than a little surprised though! I thought the small soldered balls & fretwork in this style were certanly classical Arab tribal or possibly even Yemeni or beduin work silver work? But as I said not realy my field, gos to show a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing!

Ive handled much pre. ww2 silver work years ago mostly from Burma but some Thai, {Siam then of course..} & cant see any connection?

The lack of an obvious plant or animal symbolism in such hand made piece strikes me as very Muslim? {Although perhaps the symbols on the buckle might represent some creature in a very base form.}

Something of a mystery so far it seems! mmmmmmmm Interesting!

Spiral

1st August 2011, 11:46 AM	#1
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Yemeni? Silver Cartridge belt or Bandolier Hi Chaps, I wonder if anyone here has insights into date & origin of this cartridge belt? I am guessing Yemen but not realy my field, Any photos of such in use? I think its probably coin silver but havent tested it. Theres variation on the lower end internal diameters of each tube, anything from 11mm to 14 mm. I love how its been worn enough to have a slink where it fitted over someones hips. spiral

1st August 2011, 04:20 PM	#2
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,630	Hello Spiral. What a terriffic item!!! Never seen one like it. I own an old beat-up leather one - Turkish I think? Where did you ever find it? It doesn't look like it, but could it be Egyptian? The reason I ask: You mention the inside diameter being between 11MM and 14MM. From the late 1860's through the late 1880's there was a cartridge identified as a 11MM (.43) Egyptian, used by the Egyptian Government - and others I'm sure. (There was also a 11MM Spanish cartridge). It was a bottle neck cartridge with an 11MM bullet to about 14MM at the base of the case. Hmmmm, maybe your belt was made for that cartridge? Just a thought. If you have access or know an old cartridge collector you could try different samples and see if one fits best. This would give you an approximate time frame your belt was in use. Just an idea. In any case, a great find!!! If you ever decide to part with it........... Rick.

1st August 2011, 07:46 PM	#3
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,786	WOW!!! ENVY ENVY

2nd August 2011, 09:55 AM	#4
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Cheers Rick! It does look like the .43 Egyption would proberly fit then, With a base diameter of 14mm but would guess other old blackpowder & early smokeless cartrigides would as well? As you say I need to see a cartridge collector. Thanks Kahnjar! Do you think Yemini seems right or could it be something else? Spiral

2nd August 2011, 10:18 AM	#5
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Hi Jonathan. Interesting thing, don't remember seeing one like it before. Drag it along to one of the military fairs near us and you might be able to find someone with de-ac cartridges for WW1/2 rifles to try in it? Would .303's fit? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.303_British

2nd August 2011, 01:32 PM	#6
Michael Blalock Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: dc Posts: 271	It does not look Yemeni or middle eastern to me. It could be from the golden triangle.

3rd August 2011, 12:12 AM	#8
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Cheers Gene took it up to a friend today who dropped a deactivated .303 into it for me, it just caught on the rim {so diameter or the fat part of tube must be about 13.5 } but I dont think thats what it was made for. In a bandolier the base of cartridge would need to be able to be grasped I think. So someting bigger than a .303 it seems. Thanks Stuart, theres enough variation in the sizes or how deep the rounds should sit that without someone dropping exactly the right round into it I think it would be hard to be sure. Interesting though that it could also hold powder dispensers! Thank you much though. Great input Michael! I am a more than a little surprised though! I thought the small soldered balls & fretwork in this style were certanly classical Arab tribal or possibly even Yemeni or beduin work silver work? But as I said not realy my field, gos to show a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing! Ive handled much pre. ww2 silver work years ago mostly from Burma but some Thai, {Siam then of course..} & cant see any connection? The lack of an obvious plant or animal symbolism in such hand made piece strikes me as very Muslim? {Although perhaps the symbols on the buckle might represent some creature in a very base form.} Something of a mystery so far it seems! mmmmmmmm Interesting! Spiral