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Old 7th November 2009, 11:10 PM   #1
Spiridonov
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Default barrels with tube fastening in 1470-80

This question for Michael. Hello, Michael. I wish to ask you. Do you have photos of handgonnes with tube fastening on a simple stick for 1470-80 with the sizes (calibre, lengtn...) and the description (marks, matireal...)? For example, whether here of this kind (1, 2, 3, 4). Do you have information about this barrels (5)? Is the stoks original or not? What is the date of this? Still I wish to ask, how is frequent barrels of this types was painted? Sorry - too many questions
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Old 8th November 2009, 01:17 PM   #2
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Hi Alexander,

For photos of tiller/stick guns of the mid to the 2nd half of the 15th century, please go to

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=8461.

The barrel of the first gun in my thread, ca. 1450, is of wrought iron, the one of the second (ca. 1500) of copper alloy (brass or bronze). The socket of the first retains remains of the original tiller stock while this is preserved completely on the second gun.
I will post the measurements and data soon.

The watercolors nos. 1-4 in your thread are taken from a codex of ca. 1480 preserved in the collections of the Princes of Waldburg-Wolfegg, and illuminated by an anonymous artist known as Meister des Hausbuchs (Master of the housebook).

Your photo no. 5 shows some of a large number of haquebuts with wrought iron barrels, ca. 1460-1500, mostly of Nuremberg and Bohemian make, all preserved at the Západoceské Muzeum Pilsen, Czechia. Some of their stocks are original while others seem to be later reconstructions. Unfortunately this is hard to determine nowadays because, after left in virtually untouched and perfectly patinated condition for hundreds of years, all of the Pilsen guns were exposed to heavy 'restoration' measures in the 1980's, often with extremely sad results for the pieces, especially the stocks. E.g., large pieces of felt were nailed to the rear flat ends of the buttstocks, a rather 'ingenious' method indeed of preventing them from 'damage'. All the wooden surfaces were crudely smoothened and varnished thickly. As I said, the outcome is very sad and - what is even worse - irreversible and it is really hard to tell what is old and what is new, and it is absolutely impossible to tell what they looked like orginally.
Just for the sake of completeness let me add that the iron parts had been acid cleaned.

I went here with so much enthusiasm to see one of the oldest preserved collections in the world, and then my eyes almost filled up with tears.

As to the question of painting of late 15th century stocks, this cannot be answered by just yes or no. From my experience I should say that most stocks were just left untreated while others were varnished and some even painted polychromatic including decorative symbols such as floral patterns and even coats-of-arms. The wood used for the stocks of heavy pieces was mostly oak, sometimes ash, but I have also seen fir and beech now and then.

I tried to give a few highly unusual examples of painted Gothic stocks in former threads.

Best,
Michael
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Old 8th November 2009, 07:16 PM   #3
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I was meaning not painting of stocks but painting of barrels
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Originally Posted by Matchlock
I will post the measurements and data soon.

Thanks, I will be wait.
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Old 1st December 2009, 03:49 PM   #4
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Hi Alexander,

Please accept my heartfelt excuses for letting you wait so long!
Here are the answers to your qestions concerning the measurement data of my two tiller guns.

The measurements of the bronze barrel tiller (stick) gun formerly in my collection, late 15th century, are:
overall length 146.8 cm, barrel 56.6 cm, caliber 13 mm (measured about one inch back of the bell shaped muzzle opening widened for easier loading).

The data of my wrought iron barrel, with remains of its original tiller stock preserved in the socket, ca. 1450-60, are:
overall length 72.7 cm, barrel 56.1 cm, caliber at the widened muzzle 20 mm, narrowing to ca. 16 mm after about one inch (see above).

Best wishes,
Michael
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Old 1st December 2009, 04:04 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiridonov
I was meaning not painting of stocks but painting of barrels

Thanks, I will be wait.



Hi Alexander,

In my experience iron barrels were quite often painted red with minium (red lead) in the Gothic era; this was most probably an anti corrosive measure as well as it may have expressed the general appreciation of the color red in that period of time.

Although such varnishes have mostly gone from the rusty iron surfaces in the course of the centuries small remains can often still be found in protected areas. Longer barrels of heavier pieces seem to have been painted more often than smaller ones; e.g., I hardly know of any painted little barrel (ca. 15-30 cm) that may have originally been part of a hand cannon.

Best wishes,
Michael
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Old 3rd December 2009, 07:04 PM   #6
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Oh, one day, when i am grown up and well behaved, i shall have one of these.
Sigh .
Fernando

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Old 6th December 2009, 08:44 AM   #7
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Hello Michael! Thanks for very useful and valuable information. I am very grateful for the help
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