A challenge ... what would this be?

fernando · 3rd August 2009, 02:03 AM

The seller doesn't know ... and neither do i

It is in wood and about 5" long.
Any guess, Gentlemen?

Fernando

.

David · 3rd August 2009, 02:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

The seller doesn't know ... and neither do i

It is in wood and about 5" long.
Any guess, Gentlemen?

Fernando

.

Why it's the Holy Slingshot of Antioch!

Rick · 3rd August 2009, 03:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Why it's the Holy Slingshot of Antioch!

I'm trying really hard not to ROFL David ..

Jim McDougall · 3rd August 2009, 05:22 AM

Hi Fernando,
You are the master of esoteric acquisitions!
Without context or any note of provenance, it would of course be really hard to say exactly what this might be, but the crosses would suggest the obvious Christian associations, and this would possibly be a votive of some kind. Such items were often created in symbolic images, but at this point it would be tough to guess.

All the best,
Jim

fernando · 3rd August 2009, 02:56 PM

Hi Rick,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

I'm trying really hard not to ROFL David ..

Initials are tricky for a non english dominant

.
Is this the meaning?

Fernando

Rick · 3rd August 2009, 03:06 PM

Hi Fernando,
You are correct Sir .

I needed to laugh a bit last night; my apologies .

Do we have an origin for this piece ?

fernando · 3rd August 2009, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

... my apologies .

...

Apologies?

now i am worried

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

... Do we have an origin for this piece ?

No; i will have to ask the seller, although most probably he has bought it in a street fair and will not help

Fernando

fernando · 3rd August 2009, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Why it's the Holy Slingshot of Antioch!

Brilliant, David

Why didn't i think of that, in the first place?
... used by the priest to throw the communion wafers into the congregants mouths; good to avoid H1N1 contamination

.
Fernando

fernando · 3rd August 2009, 02:48 PM

Hi Jim,
Thanks for the hint

.
No, no context or provenance, except that this is a Christian influenced region and, as you well suggest, the crosses are a symbolic reminder.
Only i think they are just alegoric and the object might as well be some kind of utensil, not necessarily with a direct connection to religious paraphernalia.
Fernando

colin henshaw · 4th August 2009, 08:05 PM

It does have a bit of an African look, so with the Christian imagery, this would point to Highland Ethiopia. Ethiopian priests did carry hand crosses in procession usually made of metal...

Just a guess

roanoa · 4th August 2009, 09:44 PM

Let's avoid making silly comments about religious practises, such as Holy Communion, which I for one take quite seriously. Having said that, I believe this is an Ethiopian SISTRUM. It is missing the top part with the metal disks.

fearn · 4th August 2009, 11:17 PM

Hi Roanoa,

Do you have an example sistrum that looks like this? Most of the "ethiopian" sistrums shown on Google have much thinner uprights, and I'd expect to see holes drilled through it to hold the disks if it was a sistrum.

Neat object. I didn't know what a lucet was until Jeff brought it up.

Best,

F

roanoa · 5th August 2009, 05:30 AM

I looked up Google Images for "lucet" and there is indeed a strong similarity, though there is no hole beneath the "fork". The reason why I suggested a sistrum is because of the religious symbols. A simple string could be tied to the fork and there really is no need for holes to be drilled. Again, on Google Images I found a "How to make a sistrum" with a wooden fork and a string (plus the metal disks). So I still believe it is a possibility, though, of corse, I cannot be sure....

kronckew · 5th August 2009, 02:49 PM

not all the lucets i saw in the internet had holes. i'm tending towards that option. even monks or nuns would have done something like lucetting to occupy their time and make useful cords.

of course, it is also likely to be a plumber's tool.

David · 5th August 2009, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roanoa

I looked up Google Images for "lucet" and there is indeed a strong similarity, though there is no hole beneath the "fork". The reason why I suggested a sistrum is because of the religious symbols. A simple string could be tied to the fork and there really is no need for holes to be drilled. Again, on Google Images I found a "How to make a sistrum" with a wooden fork and a string (plus the metal disks). So I still believe it is a possibility, though, of corse, I cannot be sure....

I don't think this is a sistrum either. Sure you can make one out of it by stringing disks, but i can discern no wear where the strings would have been, nor do i see any wear where the disks would have no doubt struck on the inside of the forks when in use.

fernando · 6th August 2009, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roanoa

Let's avoid making silly comments about religious practises, such as Holy Communion, which I for one take quite seriously...

No need to be fundamentalist, roanoa

. We are joking here; considering a good faith piece of humor a silly coment, it's a remark that deserves no better classification

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by roanoa

...Having said that, I believe this is an Ethiopian SISTRUM. It is missing the op part with the metal disks.

I find it very hard to be a sistrum, and i don't think it is missing any attachement; there is no marks sugesting so.
BTW, did you know that the sistrum, provenant from the egiptian cult to Isis, was forbidden in the VI century Concilium?
So true that it maintained its existence with Copta Christianism until present days.
Fernando

fernando · 6th August 2009, 12:24 AM

Thank you all for your sugestions, Gentlemen.
This exercize of trying to find out what an unkown thing is, can be a fascinating theme, specially because of the variety of sugestions put up.
So far we have a lucet, a slingshot (

), a plumbers tool, a hand cross, and a war club (

).
Although the lucet seems to be the closest sugestion, i don't think it is one; but i am not based in any evidence to so think.
I could swear it is not from Yorkshire

; i am more certain of that than of the eventualy that it might be a weapon

.

Fernando.

tribalarms · 6th August 2009, 02:55 AM

Could it be a distaff?

David · 6th August 2009, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

So far we have a lucet, a slingshot (

), a plumbers tool, a hand cross, and a war club (

).

Don't forgets Jim's suggestion of a votive, which i have not discounted yet. In fact, for me right now it seems the most likely.

3rd August 2009, 02:03 AM	#1
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	A challenge ... what would this be? The seller doesn't know ... and neither do i It is in wood and about 5" long. Any guess, Gentlemen? Fernando . Attached Images

3rd August 2009, 05:22 AM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,670	Hi Fernando, You are the master of esoteric acquisitions! Without context or any note of provenance, it would of course be really hard to say exactly what this might be, but the crosses would suggest the obvious Christian associations, and this would possibly be a votive of some kind. Such items were often created in symbolic images, but at this point it would be tough to guess. All the best, Jim

3rd August 2009, 03:06 PM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,376	Hi Fernando, You are correct Sir . I needed to laugh a bit last night; my apologies . Do we have an origin for this piece ?

3rd August 2009, 02:48 PM	#9
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Hi Jim, Thanks for the hint . No, no context or provenance, except that this is a Christian influenced region and, as you well suggest, the crosses are a symbolic reminder. Only i think they are just alegoric and the object might as well be some kind of utensil, not necessarily with a direct connection to religious paraphernalia. Fernando

4th August 2009, 08:05 PM	#10
colin henshaw Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,429	It does have a bit of an African look, so with the Christian imagery, this would point to Highland Ethiopia. Ethiopian priests did carry hand crosses in procession usually made of metal... Just a guess

4th August 2009, 09:44 PM	#11
roanoa Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 241	Let's avoid making silly comments about religious practises, such as Holy Communion, which I for one take quite seriously. Having said that, I believe this is an Ethiopian SISTRUM. It is missing the top part with the metal disks.

4th August 2009, 11:17 PM	#12
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Hi Roanoa, Do you have an example sistrum that looks like this? Most of the "ethiopian" sistrums shown on Google have much thinner uprights, and I'd expect to see holes drilled through it to hold the disks if it was a sistrum. Neat object. I didn't know what a lucet was until Jeff brought it up. Best, F

5th August 2009, 05:30 AM	#13
roanoa Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 241	I looked up Google Images for "lucet" and there is indeed a strong similarity, though there is no hole beneath the "fork". The reason why I suggested a sistrum is because of the religious symbols. A simple string could be tied to the fork and there really is no need for holes to be drilled. Again, on Google Images I found a "How to make a sistrum" with a wooden fork and a string (plus the metal disks). So I still believe it is a possibility, though, of corse, I cannot be sure....

5th August 2009, 02:49 PM	#14
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,259	not all the lucets i saw in the internet had holes. i'm tending towards that option. even monks or nuns would have done something like lucetting to occupy their time and make useful cords. of course, it is also likely to be a plumber's tool.

6th August 2009, 12:24 AM	#17
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Thank you all for your sugestions, Gentlemen. This exercize of trying to find out what an unkown thing is, can be a fascinating theme, specially because of the variety of sugestions put up. So far we have a lucet, a slingshot ( ), a plumbers tool, a hand cross, and a war club ( ). Although the lucet seems to be the closest sugestion, i don't think it is one; but i am not based in any evidence to so think. I could swear it is not from Yorkshire ; i am more certain of that than of the eventualy that it might be a weapon . Fernando.

6th August 2009, 02:55 AM	#18
tribalarms Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 26	Could it be a distaff?