Bali Hilt ID???

David · 18th March 2024, 05:11 PM

Hi Folks! A good friend of mine just acquired this polychromed Balinese hilt for the price of a taco in, of all places, a Central Mexican marketplace. I do realize that togogan Bali hilts are often notoriously difficult at times to pin an actual character ID on, but i thought i would give this a go and see if anyone has any ideas. He is not one i am particularly familiar with, but there are a few clues, like his distinctive humpback and the particular mudra the right hand forms. Maybe even the chain slung off the shoulder is a clue as well as the choice of red and black colours. Who knows?

A. G. Maisey · 18th March 2024, 10:14 PM

I do not know, but if I had to take a punt I'd likely back Wisnu.

David · 19th March 2024, 03:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

I do not know, but if I had to take a punt I'd likely back Wisnu.

Thanks for your response Alan. Is there any particular aspect of the the hilt that opens you to such punting?
Obviously it is no master carving, but can you place this in any time period. My thought was first half of the 20th century, maybe up to the 1960s, but I can’t really base that on much.

A. G. Maisey · 19th March 2024, 03:33 AM

Never seen anything like it David, I cannot date it.

Is it soft wood?

I'm taking three to one on Wisnu because of the colour, Wisnu's colour is black/dark grey/ dark blue.

David · 19th March 2024, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Never seen anything like it David, I cannot date it.

Is it soft wood?

I'm taking three to one on Wisnu because of the colour, Wisnu's colour is black/dark grey/ dark blue.

Thanks for the info regarding colour and that makes some sense. Unfortunately i don't have the hilt in hand, but i will ask my friend about the weight/density of the wood. I would image that lighter/softer woods are used in more modern, less serious carvings.
The figure does seem to have a bit of a hunchback. Can that be related to Wisnu in any way?

A. G. Maisey · 19th March 2024, 08:45 PM

Re inferior wood in hilts.

Maybe not David. I have a number of older Bali hilts that have been carved from wood that is less than premium. I think I would be hard pushed to find a newly made hilt in poor quality wood, everything I've seen in Bali in recent years has been from good quality material.

But then again, this hilt has been painted, and it seems to be general practice to use lesser material when it is to be covered with paint, & this applies to older hilts & more recent ones.

I doubt that we can use material quality as an indicator of possible age.

I do not know if the hunchback can be associated with Wisnu.

EDIT

just a thought:- Wisnu is associated with economic actvities, maybe the carver had a hunched over accountant in mind when he wanted a model, or maybe the client was a hunched over accountant or some other desk bound occupation.

18th March 2024, 05:11 PM	#1
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,115	Bali Hilt ID??? Hi Folks! A good friend of mine just acquired this polychromed Balinese hilt for the price of a taco in, of all places, a Central Mexican marketplace. I do realize that togogan Bali hilts are often notoriously difficult at times to pin an actual character ID on, but i thought i would give this a go and see if anyone has any ideas. He is not one i am particularly familiar with, but there are a few clues, like his distinctive humpback and the particular mudra the right hand forms. Maybe even the chain slung off the shoulder is a clue as well as the choice of red and black colours. Who knows? Attached Images

18th March 2024, 10:14 PM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,882	I do not know, but if I had to take a punt I'd likely back Wisnu.

19th March 2024, 03:33 AM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,882	Never seen anything like it David, I cannot date it. Is it soft wood? I'm taking three to one on Wisnu because of the colour, Wisnu's colour is black/dark grey/ dark blue.

19th March 2024, 08:45 PM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,882	Re inferior wood in hilts. Maybe not David. I have a number of older Bali hilts that have been carved from wood that is less than premium. I think I would be hard pushed to find a newly made hilt in poor quality wood, everything I've seen in Bali in recent years has been from good quality material. But then again, this hilt has been painted, and it seems to be general practice to use lesser material when it is to be covered with paint, & this applies to older hilts & more recent ones. I doubt that we can use material quality as an indicator of possible age. I do not know if the hunchback can be associated with Wisnu. EDIT just a thought:- Wisnu is associated with economic actvities, maybe the carver had a hunched over accountant in mind when he wanted a model, or maybe the client was a hunched over accountant or some other desk bound occupation.