1780 heavy Cavalry Officer Sword

[Bryce]

G'day guys,
I recently added this interesting sword to my collection. I think it dates to around 1770-1780 and would have belonged to a heavy cavalry officer. This is the oldest British sword hilt I have seen that features honeysuckle in the design. Honeysuckle featured in British heavy cavalry officer swords from the 1796 undress sword onwards. Unfortunately parts of the guard are missing and the whole sword is very patinated. The long, slim blade is 92cm long, 2.8cm wide at the ricasso and double edged for the last 35cm. This particular blade design seems to have been popular in the period before the 1788 pattern became regulation. Also interesting is that a scarf weld is clearly visible at the ricasso. This is where the steel blade was welded to an iron tang. Most examples of this blade I have been able to find online, also show a scarf weld in the same position.

I am sure that in the past somewhere, I have seen a pristine example of this same style hilt, but I can't remember where? There is a similar hilt shown in Charles Martyn's "The British cavalry sword from 1600".
Cheers,
Bryce

[fernando]

Very nice sword, Brice. Thanks for sharing .

[Jim McDougall]

Bryce, this is truly a most exciting anomaly!! and an incredibly attractive hilt form which adds to the intrigues of the mysteries of 1788 heavy cavalry officers swords.
It seems there has never been any consensus on an actual 'pattern' for heavy cavalry officers swords of 1788,though as well known the light cavalry sabers known as '1788's were entirely unofficial...with the M1796 being the first 'regulation' patterns.
In Robson(1975, p60) noting instructions for light cavalry officers in 1788 to 'carry the same pattern as the men'.
"...the heavy cavalry officers also appear to have obeyed the instruction, at least when mounted, and to have carried the same cumbersome basket hilted pattern as the troopers".

I once had one of these 'basket' hilted types which was regarded 'loosely' as a 1788 'heavy' but unfortunately it is gone and cannot yet find photos. I do recall it had a monster of a blade (40")!! and that heavy cavalry swords tended to be quite long after 1750s (35-39" blades).

Attached is a 'horsemans' basket hilt of 1760s-70s (note horsemans ring) with blade @ 39.5". Presumably this may be the type basket hilt meant but is of course 'Scottish' form. The other type was more a branched guard.

In your example, the pommel is notable as the neo classic form of 'urn shape' which was pioneered by the Adam brothers in England c.1775 (Aylward,1945, p.63, fig.31,I) and popular on small sword hilts. British officers were inclined of course toward these stylish hilt fashions in these times.

But the complex half basket guard is more of a dilemma. I am not familiar with the Martyn book, but cannot imagine this hilt being c. 1600. While there are certain subtle resemblances to the mortuary half baskets, these were more 1630s at earliest into 1650s.
The scrolled arms on cavalry sword hilts seem to have been present on those of the Royal Horse Guards in 1788 but the hilt not quite as intricate and pommel is a gadrooned sphere. (Robson p.85)
There seems to be a bit more latitude and variation in these units with Household cavalry etc.

Returning to the pommel, which of course is not always reliable in dating hilt forms as they are obviously quite interchangeable, and often purchased from other vendors. ..
In Norman ("The Rapier and Small Sword 1460-1820, p.282, #92, #93) are two neo classic type 'vase' style pommels. In #93 it is noted that when the sides are vertically faceted the plan (shape) is polygonal. Also, that in the Boulton & Watt pattern book (small swords) there are examples similar that resemble a truncated cone from 1788. This seems to fall in line with the urn types of the Adam brothers c. 1775.
Producers of these were noted as Bland & Foster, which comes to mind as esteemed outfitter/cutlers of that period, perhaps a source for this hilt?

The rayskin grip and wire wrap is consistent with British swords of 1770s period.
With the 'honeysuckle' term, Robson notes this in describing some of the heavy cavalry sword patterns where in 1796 the 'ladder' style hilt pattern is noted and the later examples describe 'scroll' pattern where he regards the 'honeysuckle ' term more appropriate (p.157). Perhaps in searches the variation in terms might come into play.

These are just passim notes from my zero dark thirty foray into research on this fascinating hilt, which I could not stop thinking and wondering about
I hope some of it will be of some use.
Magnificent sword!

Attached: basket hilt heavy cavalry horsemans sword 1760-70s
Lionhead dragoon officers sword and troopers sword, both
'four slot' hilt design c. 1770s

[Interested Party]

Originally Posted by Bryce

I think it dates to around 1770-1780 and would have belonged to a heavy cavalry officer. This is the oldest British sword hilt I have seen that features honeysuckle in the design. Honeysuckle featured in British heavy cavalry officer swords from the 1796 undress sword onwards.

That is a very nice sword, Bryce! When you say honeysuckle do you know if that is a literal representation of honeysuckle or just a generic term for any vine work? I have had an interest in floral representation on edged weapons that started in during research in university and has popped up periodically since then? To me it is reminiscent of work from the British Isles of two millennia earlier.

[Interested Party]

I may have answered part of my own question. This is from the New York Times:
"It is interesting to note the speed with which Lonicera has spread. Though there is some debate, William Kerr, a 19th-century collector for Kew Gardens in London, was probably responsible for honeysuckle’s first recorded appearance outside Asia, in 1806. The plant’s emergence in North America began in earnest in 1862, when George Hall, a physician and plant breeder, introduced a popular and vigorous variety. Japanese honeysuckle made its first dash for freedom in the New World along the banks of the Potomac River in 1882. The blame does not lie with plant collectors alone. Japanese honeysuckle was highly recommended for erosion control, and to add beauty to planting sites well into the 20th century."

Whether, 1806 is a North American centric date, as it is the date I have seen in other sources as introduction to N.A., is still a bit of an open question. Sorry for diving into the minutia.

[Jim McDougall]

I.P. actually I did mean to lead things 'down the garden path' (so to speak) but brought up the term to refer to the key words often used in searching resources, which is often futile with terms which are not broadly used or in different context. The 'honeysuckle' term is one used more often in collectors jargon or vernacular and it seems more to the 19th century heavy cavalry patterns, as Robson points out. Another example is the 'gothic' hilts in the 1822 pattern hilts, which of course is a bit disconcerting unless one is familiar with architectural peculiarities.

All minutiae is is important in trying to identify hilt patterns and decoration as these are clues that might lead to proper identification, thank you for this interesting information!

Bryce, trying to think of where I also have seen this pattern hilt.......perhaps Southwick? Neumann? You are far more the authority on these patterns, and Dellar and Robson tacitly avoid the 18th century and earlier in British pattern swords. This is understandable with the inconsistency and broad variations in the swords used in those times, as we can see with the 1788 dilemma.

[Bryce]

G'day Guys,

Jim, "The British Cavalry Sword from 1600" is the title of Charles Martyn's book, not the suggested date for this sword. I think a date of 1770-1780 is about right for my sword. Thanks for posting the photos of your swords. That basket hilt has the same style of blade as my sword and if you look closely at the photo, you can see it too has a scarf weld at the ricasso.

IP, not being from Britain I am not sure what plant exactly this refers too, but had always assumed "Honeysuckle" was native to Britain? Is it common honeysuckle Lonicerum periclymenum? I am mainly going on what other authors had mentioned including Charles Martyn.
Cheers,
Bryce

PS Actually looking at the photos again, all three swords have the same style of blade and the scarf weld is also showing on the 3rd sword.

[Jim McDougall]

Thanks Bryce,missed that, it was the title.
Interesting on the scarf welds, what was the reason for this? and it seems pretty prevalent.
I got Southwick, ("London Silver Hilted Swords", 2001) and these examples are I think pertinent.

The first in one which corresponds to the lion head dragoon officer I posted.
The next three (black & white) illustrate the 'scrolled' bar designs which seem to have a prevalence with outfitters for officers swords from about 1750s to 1780s including of course those presumed to be contenders for the pattern 1788 heavy cavalry examples. While these are clearly not exact match, they do show the general character of the form.

Most of these scrolled bars seem simple, however yours is far more intricate incorporating baroque floral designs into the half basket pattern with the bars included. It would seem the cutlers were competing using innovative designs. I agree yours would likely be in the 1770s with that 'Adam' type pommel.

I think I have seen a design like this too, but cannot place where it was.

[Will M]

Very nice sword. If there was to be loss in the guard then it's on the side not displayed! Should be repairable, not much gone abd you have the pattern to work with