crossbow of one foot, two foot and 'a tour'

randallstorey · 18th October 2012, 03:17 PM

Hi all

I frequently see these terms in records and I'm under the impression they refer to the means of drawing the crossbow, the last being mechanical. However, I can't recall seeing a substantial discussion of these terms, especially their development and varying etymologies.

Any ideas where to look?

fernando · 19th October 2012, 10:19 AM

For a start:

SEE PAGE 97 HERE

fernando · 19th October 2012, 12:00 PM

Amazingly also in this forum, despite the existing huge amount of material on crossbows, i (for one) don't recall the mentioning of such terms, which obviously refer different arming systems .
While 'one foot' or 'two foot' refer the arming mode of portable crossbows, the term 'a tour' is typicaly french and, alternated with the term 'treuil' (winch), is more connected with the arbalist, the heavy weight crossbow or even the siege machine that succeeded the catapult.

.

randallstorey · 19th October 2012, 02:03 PM

Thanks for the ref Fernando. Google books didnt reveal the text of the page for me, could you summarise the author's statement on the matter for me if not too much trouble.

I have just begun looking through this forum and am overjoyed with the info available esp the photographs which are in short supply in published materials now! The document i use in which these terms appear are English of thirteenth to fourteenth centuries, with better distinctions among them obviously culminating towards the latter. I wondered though how prevalent this naming system was throughout Europe and during the twelfth century?

All the best

fernando · 20th October 2012, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randallstorey

... I wondered though how prevalent this naming system was throughout Europe and during the twelfth century? ...

Assuming i have no documentation on this subject, what i posted came from browsing the Net as, being interesting material, i feel enticed to also learn out of such research.
I have found so far that this terminology also existed in France. You can draw from the inventory of a French castle, in a letter addressed to the King, dated December 1213, the mentioning of two foot crossbows (arbalete a deux poids) and also arbalists (arbalete a tour)

http://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/Invent...y_de_Dampierre

Also if you can deal with the french language, you can read the following perspective of a member posting in a French archery forum, in that he assumes that the two foot crossbow is a device from the 10th 11th century.

je peux me tromper mais ,d'après moi l'arbalète à deux pieds est une des premières arbalètes 10 ième 11ième siècle.l'armenent se fait dos d'arc au sol les 2 pieds le long de l'arbrier et on tire à la main sur la corde

wardlaw · 20th October 2012, 09:51 PM

Apologies for highjacking the thread but, if this is the Randall Storey I met way back at the Arms, Armies and Fortifications Conference at Oxford many, many years ago, do drop me a line.

Rob Jones

randallstorey · 19th October 2012, 02:12 PM

I've found a readable page of Crossbow Hunting now, thanks again. Those were my impressions, but I was hoping for a more substantial and historical discussion of these terms. Any other ideas?

18th October 2012, 03:17 PM	#1
randallstorey Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 15	crossbow of one foot, two foot and 'a tour' Hi all I frequently see these terms in records and I'm under the impression they refer to the means of drawing the crossbow, the last being mechanical. However, I can't recall seeing a substantial discussion of these terms, especially their development and varying etymologies. Any ideas where to look?

19th October 2012, 12:00 PM	#3
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,667	Amazingly also in this forum, despite the existing huge amount of material on crossbows, i (for one) don't recall the mentioning of such terms, which obviously refer different arming systems . While 'one foot' or 'two foot' refer the arming mode of portable crossbows, the term 'a tour' is typicaly french and, alternated with the term 'treuil' (winch), is more connected with the arbalist, the heavy weight crossbow or even the siege machine that succeeded the catapult. . Attached Images

19th October 2012, 10:19 AM	#2
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,667	For a start: SEE PAGE 97 HERE

19th October 2012, 02:03 PM	#4
randallstorey Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 15	Thanks for the ref Fernando. Google books didnt reveal the text of the page for me, could you summarise the author's statement on the matter for me if not too much trouble. I have just begun looking through this forum and am overjoyed with the info available esp the photographs which are in short supply in published materials now! The document i use in which these terms appear are English of thirteenth to fourteenth centuries, with better distinctions among them obviously culminating towards the latter. I wondered though how prevalent this naming system was throughout Europe and during the twelfth century? All the best

20th October 2012, 09:51 PM	#6
wardlaw Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Somerset, UK Posts: 8	Apologies for highjacking the thread but, if this is the Randall Storey I met way back at the Arms, Armies and Fortifications Conference at Oxford many, many years ago, do drop me a line. Rob Jones

19th October 2012, 02:12 PM	#7
randallstorey Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 15	I've found a readable page of Crossbow Hunting now, thanks again. Those were my impressions, but I was hoping for a more substantial and historical discussion of these terms. Any other ideas?