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3rd February 2013, 06:14 PM | #1 |
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A fine moroccan Musket for ID
Hi eveybody
Here a fine Moroccan Musket for ID. Also I need help for translate one Arabic inscription. Any comments are welcome. Cerjak |
3rd February 2013, 07:07 PM | #2 |
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more pics
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3rd February 2013, 07:23 PM | #3 |
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3rd February 2013, 07:29 PM | #4 |
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3rd February 2013, 07:36 PM | #5 |
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3rd February 2013, 07:43 PM | #6 |
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last pics
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4th February 2013, 12:33 AM | #7 |
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Hi Cerjak
hard luck ... we don't win at each shoot anyway, the transcription (not the translation) give might be what could be a name, without guarantee KAWASH (?) ... no more otherwise, very nice gun, with a fantastic "platine à chenapan" but I didn't think, that should be Tuareg à + Dom |
4th February 2013, 10:24 AM | #8 |
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Very beautiful musket! Is great!!!
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4th February 2013, 11:46 AM | #9 | |
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Quote:
Again many thanks for your help ,I don't think too that it could be Tuareg But I have seen in a book a similar example said to be from algeria but I have some doubts because I have many Algerian muskets and their lock are different May be a menber know more about his origin Regards Cerjak |
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4th February 2013, 12:38 PM | #10 |
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Hi Cerjak and Dom,
I will try to resist a little to make the discussion more funny. This style of the gunstock including the shaping for finger was common in Sahara a and till now I was of the opinion it was used generally there, but also mainly preferred by Tuaregs (see other types of north African gunstocks used parallelly). On the other side - the true is the Tuaregs used another adornment, mostly made of camel bones and studs. I think this kind of lock was used in north Africa from and including Tripolitania to the west, and also parallelly with other types. But let the experts for musket join this thread |
5th February 2013, 03:12 PM | #11 | |
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yes your doubts are justified, myself I checked my books, here what I deduced ; - In Morocco, they prefer the "platine Chenapan" - In Ageria they prefer, the "platine Miquelet" this deduction (general view) is based on the examination of muskets known for each country, the differences must be consecutive to supply sources the heel of your rifle, is very similar to those of Morocco more precisely, from "Tetuna" (North Coast) back to Martin's suggestion ... Tuareg's long gun ... why not, as per an exception, to confirm that in general, the Tuareg weapons were not guns or pistols, but essentially ; - takouba - ceremonial sword - spears and javelins - arm dagger (Telek) - belt dagger - shield - and even, "offensive wristlets" Tuareg's raids were operated in an eastern direction (Sudan) or South to the African territories (actualy; Niger, Mali, etc.), this in order to give them the slaves they needed, but no (or very few) firearms, in this times in these regions, also the Tuaregs began to possess fire arms, circa 1898 but it wasn't anymore traditional weapons, but European weapons, in the context of smuggling of gold, ivory, in direction of North if this is not the "truth" at least it should not be far references issued from, French book - Histoire Générale de l'Afrique "l'Afrique au XIXè siècle jusque vers les années 1880" par Jacob Festus Ade Ajayi all the best, Cerjak and Martin à + Dom |
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5th February 2013, 05:58 PM | #12 |
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Hi Dom and Cerjak,
OK - I strike sail, guns are not my field. But where are those old times of takoubas and teleks.....- Enclosed plese find "Tuaregs through the eye of time". And also - where are other forumites (I mean experts for long guns) ? Regards, Martin |
5th February 2013, 06:58 PM | #13 |
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The only reference I have on these is Elgoods "Firearms of the Islamic World". There he describes this type as Afedali and places its origin in the Sous valley in Morocco. It would not be surprising if these were used within a much wider area though.
I am not sure of a good reference on firearms used by the Tuareg, but it seems like they had no cultural reluctance to guns and acquired them at any given opportunity. Per Smaldone, the Tuareg controlled the Northern (or Trans-Saharan) route of firearms into Hausaland, and it would seem likely that many of the guns they obtained must have been of Moroccan manufacture, as these were probably the only ones available for the most part. The French and the other colonial powers in the region did everything they could to prevent a supply of modern firearms to the Tuareg and the Sudanic empires, for obvious reasons. Smaldone also raises a very good point: the lack of a reliable supply of cartridges for breechloaders made muzzleloaders popular in the Sahel (and likely Sahara as well), since the ammunition for them could be locally produced. Based on the above it seems pretty safe to conclude that muskets such as the very nice subject of this thread, must have been used among the Tuareg, at least for as long as they could not obtain anything better. |
6th February 2013, 08:37 PM | #14 |
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There are also articles about North African long guns, including nice photos, in "Islamic Weapons from Maghrib to Moghul" by Anthony C. Tirri.
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6th February 2013, 11:30 PM | #15 | |
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Quote:
you tricked me very well you have in your library a very good reference book where I listed pictures for; - 20 long guns for Morocco - 04 pistols for Morocco - 14 long guns for Algeria - 03 pistols for Algeria - 08 long guns for Kabylia - 02 long guns for Tunisia none at all, for "Tuareg", and you say that the Tuareg had firearms (19th century) as per exception, "yes", but not on regular basis, as I mentioned it thank you to have making me do research to support my argumentation it is good to reopen the books from time to time, to refresh the memory all the best à + Dom |
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7th February 2013, 09:04 AM | #16 |
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Hi Dom,
As I wrote already I stroke sail .....so I do not understand. Of course before I made reference for Tirri´s book I went through it. But If you are going to be precise, there is one for Tuareg (of the type presented here) . And I believe you for hundred % - Tuaregs did not use guns in 19 century, they started in 20 century . (But desperately really - I fully understand gun is not their original weapon. And BTW - Years ago I visited 6 times Ghadames and two times Ghat, which were considered to be part Azjer Tuaregs territories before, and I saw some old photos in a small private museum in Ghadames - maybe armed accompanions of caravan...) best Martin |
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