Mythological Info wanted

marklefont · 28th July 2011, 05:25 AM

I am looking for info on the following - Item one: a " Toothed Frog " figure is often depicted in Togogon; does anybody know the significance or name of this figure? It is often painted green, but sometimes red. There is an example in the Netherlands National Museum. Item two: Semar, the primary Panakawan, was turned into a fat dwarf by Arjuna for having committed a great sin against Arjuna. Does anybody know what this sin was? What's the story? Did he sleep with the guy's wife or something? Haven't been able to get this info from any collector / expert yet. Do you know? Mark LeFont at marklefont@att.net

A. G. Maisey · 29th July 2011, 01:19 AM

The war between the Pendawas and the Korawas was preceded by Siva coming to earth as a mystical teacher to try to negotiate peace between the two warring clans. Things are going pretty good, but Siva is opposed by Semar, so Siva orders Arjuna to go and whack Semar---this is real Mafia stuff--- Arjuna loves Semar as a brother, but Siva is the capo dei capi so Arjuna goes off to do the deed.

When Arjuna catches up with Semar, Semar says to him:-

You gunna do me like this ?

Me?!

Me what's given you loyalty and love and followed you around all over?

Well, Arjuna feels his guts twist up and really don't wanna whack Semar, but what Siva says goes, so Arjuna tells Semar sorry buddy, but I gotta do it.

Semar says:-

Ok. Ok.

That the way it gotta be ?

Ok . I'll go burn myself.

So Semar goes and lights a big fire, jumps into it, and is magically transformed into his form as a god, then he comes out of the fire and goes and gives Siva hiding.

I don't know the story you are referring to Mark, but maybe the great insult is that Semar stood up to the Boss and shamed him.

These wayang stories vary a lot and there are a number of versions and number of ways of telling them. I'm not any expert on wayang, I only have a very general over-view.

However, it is important to understand the nature of Semar if one is to understand the fabric of Javanese society and culture.

Sorry, can't help with the Demon Frog.

Amuk Murugul · 29th July 2011, 02:49 AM

Hullo everybody,

Mark, as Alan says, there are always many variations to the wayang stories.
In this case, for instance, one variation has Siwa sending a 'magician' to give Arjuna the order.

As for 'Togogon', I have no idea. Is it tied in with the wayang stories?
If so, then it may refer to Togog, in which case here is my understanding of the relevant story:

In the beginning ..... during the time of kadewatan, Togog/Antaga was born as grandson to the ruler of Heaven. However, Togog was not comfortable with his existence and returned to his 'never-born' state. Sometime later he was born together with Semar/Kuda Pawana/Ismaya. Siwa/Manikmaya/Batara Guru was their younger brother.

When the time came for the ruler of Heaven to choose the next ruler from one of the grandsons, a contest was set up and the winner would be the next ruler.
The contest was to see who could swallow the mountain Jamurdipa whole and then regurgitate it whole.
Togog was the first to try but failed, when the active volcano erupted in his mouth, splitting his cheeks.
Semar tried next. He swallowed the mountain but could not regurgitate it.
Since the object of the test could no longer be present, Siwa was declared the winner by default.

Togog is often depicted with large round, bulging eyes, a flat nose, a 'peaked' hairdo and a very wide 'frog-like' mouth to depict his split cheeks. In profile, he could be mistaken for a frog. I have even seen him painted 'reddish'.
Both Togog and Semar are sometimes depicted with single front teeth.

Incidentally, while Siwa reigned in Heaven, Semar was sent to earth as counsel/guide/mentor for those who were good, while Togog was sent to earth as counsel/guide/mentor for those who were bad.

I hope some of this is relevant.

Best,

P.S. Sorry, I just had a thought.
Could the word actually be 'Togogan"?
In which case it could mean 'in the style of a togog'; where 'togog' is a decorative sculpted head, often festooned with flowers.

A. G. Maisey · 29th July 2011, 03:19 AM

Amuk, in Javanese a "togog" is a fence post that is at the corner of a fence.

In Balinese a "togog" is a statue.

The togog or togogan that Mark is referring to is the Balinese keris holder in the form of a statue, that used to be placed near the front door so visitors could leave their keris there when they went inside the house.

Amuk Murugul · 29th July 2011, 03:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Amuk, in Javanese a "togog" is a fence post that is at the corner of a fence.

In Balinese a "togog" is a statue.

The togog or togogan that Mark is referring to is the Balinese keris holder in the form of a statue, that used to be placed near the front door so visitors could leave their keris there when they went inside the house.

Hullo Alan,

Thanks for that!
I guess I became blinkered by the 'mythology' aspect.

Best,

A. G. Maisey · 29th July 2011, 11:42 PM

This is what the Demon Frog looks like.

He's got the overall form of a frog, but a pig's snout and demon's teeth.

Not a real nice sort of bloke.

28th July 2011, 05:25 AM	#1
marklefont Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 9	Mythological Info wanted I am looking for info on the following - Item one: a " Toothed Frog " figure is often depicted in Togogon; does anybody know the significance or name of this figure? It is often painted green, but sometimes red. There is an example in the Netherlands National Museum. Item two: Semar, the primary Panakawan, was turned into a fat dwarf by Arjuna for having committed a great sin against Arjuna. Does anybody know what this sin was? What's the story? Did he sleep with the guy's wife or something? Haven't been able to get this info from any collector / expert yet. Do you know? Mark LeFont at marklefont@att.net

29th July 2011, 02:49 AM	#3
Amuk Murugul Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Kaboejoetan Galoenggoeng Mélben Posts: 460	Hullo everybody, Mark, as Alan says, there are always many variations to the wayang stories. In this case, for instance, one variation has Siwa sending a 'magician' to give Arjuna the order. As for 'Togogon', I have no idea. Is it tied in with the wayang stories? If so, then it may refer to Togog, in which case here is my understanding of the relevant story: In the beginning ..... during the time of kadewatan, Togog/Antaga was born as grandson to the ruler of Heaven. However, Togog was not comfortable with his existence and returned to his 'never-born' state. Sometime later he was born together with Semar/Kuda Pawana/Ismaya. Siwa/Manikmaya/Batara Guru was their younger brother. When the time came for the ruler of Heaven to choose the next ruler from one of the grandsons, a contest was set up and the winner would be the next ruler. The contest was to see who could swallow the mountain Jamurdipa whole and then regurgitate it whole. Togog was the first to try but failed, when the active volcano erupted in his mouth, splitting his cheeks. Semar tried next. He swallowed the mountain but could not regurgitate it. Since the object of the test could no longer be present, Siwa was declared the winner by default. Togog is often depicted with large round, bulging eyes, a flat nose, a 'peaked' hairdo and a very wide 'frog-like' mouth to depict his split cheeks. In profile, he could be mistaken for a frog. I have even seen him painted 'reddish'. Both Togog and Semar are sometimes depicted with single front teeth. Incidentally, while Siwa reigned in Heaven, Semar was sent to earth as counsel/guide/mentor for those who were good, while Togog was sent to earth as counsel/guide/mentor for those who were bad. I hope some of this is relevant. Best, P.S. Sorry, I just had a thought. Could the word actually be 'Togogan"? In which case it could mean 'in the style of a togog'; where 'togog' is a decorative sculpted head, often festooned with flowers. Last edited by Amuk Murugul; 29th July 2011 at 03:21 AM.

29th July 2011, 11:42 PM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,882	This is what the Demon Frog looks like. He's got the overall form of a frog, but a pig's snout and demon's teeth. Not a real nice sort of bloke. Attached Images

29th July 2011, 01:19 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,882	The war between the Pendawas and the Korawas was preceded by Siva coming to earth as a mystical teacher to try to negotiate peace between the two warring clans. Things are going pretty good, but Siva is opposed by Semar, so Siva orders Arjuna to go and whack Semar---this is real Mafia stuff--- Arjuna loves Semar as a brother, but Siva is the capo dei capi so Arjuna goes off to do the deed. When Arjuna catches up with Semar, Semar says to him:- You gunna do me like this ? Me?! Me what's given you loyalty and love and followed you around all over? Well, Arjuna feels his guts twist up and really don't wanna whack Semar, but what Siva says goes, so Arjuna tells Semar sorry buddy, but I gotta do it. Semar says:- Ok. Ok. That the way it gotta be ? Ok . I'll go burn myself. So Semar goes and lights a big fire, jumps into it, and is magically transformed into his form as a god, then he comes out of the fire and goes and gives Siva hiding. I don't know the story you are referring to Mark, but maybe the great insult is that Semar stood up to the Boss and shamed him. These wayang stories vary a lot and there are a number of versions and number of ways of telling them. I'm not any expert on wayang, I only have a very general over-view. However, it is important to understand the nature of Semar if one is to understand the fabric of Javanese society and culture. Sorry, can't help with the Demon Frog.

29th July 2011, 03:19 AM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,882	Amuk, in Javanese a "togog" is a fence post that is at the corner of a fence. In Balinese a "togog" is a statue. The togog or togogan that Mark is referring to is the Balinese keris holder in the form of a statue, that used to be placed near the front door so visitors could leave their keris there when they went inside the house.