A mark (stamp) on a Spanish sword

mahratt · 17th August 2018, 12:23 PM

Hi guys.
Has anyone seen such a mark (stamp) on Spanish swords? Any opinions

fernando · 17th August 2018, 12:57 PM

Are you sure this is a Spanish mark, Mahratt ?
Can you show us a picture of the inscription on the blade ?

mahratt · 17th August 2018, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

Are you sure this is a Spanish mark, Mahratt ?
Can you show us a picture of the inscription on the blade ?

Here are inscriptions:

fernando · 17th August 2018, 02:00 PM

"MIN SINAL HES EL SANTISSIMO CRUCIFICIO".
A typical Spanish inscription, sometimes added by the figure of a crucified Christ in the tang ricasso. German smiths also used such inscription when forging blades for the Spanish market.
Unfortunately i can not identify the mark you showed, after checking on the Palomares nomina, where most (all) known Toledo smiths up to 18th century are listed. Also not in Gyngell's work, neither in "Armi Bianchi Italiane", nor in "Wallace Collection" .
Still i think i have already seen this mark. Perhaps more equipped members can help.

midelburgo · 17th August 2018, 02:17 PM

The blade channel is typical from Solingen. Many walloon swords have the same. The motto is one of the four more often encountered in those bilbos. Pommel is atypical. These Boca de Caballo cavalry officer swords with four screws are probably after 1728. Previously they have more often two screws.

I also think I have seen those grapes before. I will check later.

fernando · 17th August 2018, 02:51 PM

Hi Midelburgo,
I have registered that, the four screws improvement was implemented when the Toledo Factory opened around 1760 and started production of this 1728 model. Also as from then, inspectors marks were stamped in the ricasso; this not meaning that the mark in Mahratt's blade is that of an inspector. Also at this point i wouldn't know whether such inspection marks were only stamped in King's property military swords, which wouldn't be the case here. Still possible that this is a German blade, although the habit to stamp marks in the ricasso seems to me more a Spanish fashion. On the other hand, for a Boca de Caballo, this one is rather atypical in its details; not only the pommel but also the grip, the straight quillons (some times seen) the fine decoration on the guard shells.
All in all, a rather exclusive sword, don't you think ?
It also surprises me that you name this type of swords as 'bilbos'

.

17th August 2018, 12:23 PM	#1
mahratt Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Russia Posts: 1,042	A mark (stamp) on a Spanish sword Hi guys. Has anyone seen such a mark (stamp) on Spanish swords? Any opinions Attached Images

17th August 2018, 02:51 PM	#6
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Hi Midelburgo, I have registered that, the four screws improvement was implemented when the Toledo Factory opened around 1760 and started production of this 1728 model. Also as from then, inspectors marks were stamped in the ricasso; this not meaning that the mark in Mahratt's blade is that of an inspector. Also at this point i wouldn't know whether such inspection marks were only stamped in King's property military swords, which wouldn't be the case here. Still possible that this is a German blade, although the habit to stamp marks in the ricasso seems to me more a Spanish fashion. On the other hand, for a Boca de Caballo, this one is rather atypical in its details; not only the pommel but also the grip, the straight quillons (some times seen) the fine decoration on the guard shells. All in all, a rather exclusive sword, don't you think ? It also surprises me that you name this type of swords as 'bilbos' . Last edited by fernando; 17th August 2018 at 07:32 PM.

17th August 2018, 12:57 PM	#2
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Are you sure this is a Spanish mark, Mahratt ? Can you show us a picture of the inscription on the blade ?

17th August 2018, 02:00 PM	#4
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	"MIN SINAL HES EL SANTISSIMO CRUCIFICIO". A typical Spanish inscription, sometimes added by the figure of a crucified Christ in the tang ricasso. German smiths also used such inscription when forging blades for the Spanish market. Unfortunately i can not identify the mark you showed, after checking on the Palomares nomina, where most (all) known Toledo smiths up to 18th century are listed. Also not in Gyngell's work, neither in "Armi Bianchi Italiane", nor in "Wallace Collection" . Still i think i have already seen this mark. Perhaps more equipped members can help.

17th August 2018, 02:17 PM	#5
midelburgo Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 256	The blade channel is typical from Solingen. Many walloon swords have the same. The motto is one of the four more often encountered in those bilbos. Pommel is atypical. These Boca de Caballo cavalry officer swords with four screws are probably after 1728. Previously they have more often two screws. I also think I have seen those grapes before. I will check later.