Kirpans not allowed

Jens Nordlunde · 24th October 2006, 05:38 PM

A Sikh, has in Denmark, by the court been ordered not to bring his kirpan with him when he goes out. The knife was not sharp, and the judge acknowledged that it was a religious knife, but as he said ‘a knife is a knife’.

This does not seem to make it any easier on the Danish collectors.

Mark · 24th October 2006, 09:16 PM

What do you suppose will be next? Plastic knives? Tattoos? It happens a lot, but I am always disappointed in a judge when he/she says something along the lines of "My decision makes no sense, and the equities are in favor of the other side, but I'm ruling against them."

Lee · 24th October 2006, 09:46 PM

So, at this point, may we regard the Danes as a free people?

Battara · 24th October 2006, 10:53 PM

Certainly their authorities must be enlightened.

ariel · 25th October 2006, 12:33 AM

I am not very sympathetic to the Sikh man: walking on the street, he will make an appearance of an armed person, an entity unheard of in Denmark. I do not think Danes have a duty to accomodate themselves to the religious expressions of a foreighner when these expressions clash severely with their national customs. After all, it is their country; it is the duty of the foreighner to decide whether he wants to settle in a country that bans his religious expressions.
I would not support the right of Shia Muslims to have an Ashura procession in downtown Ann Arbor, with knives, chains, blood and gore; or any kind of animal sacrifice or public human mutilation. People can have any religious beliefs they wish; they just cannot expect to have a right to exercise them openly everywhere. There is a freedom of belief, not freedom of action.
After all, Saudi Arabia does not allow consumption of alcohol even for sacramental purposes or public display of religious symbols, such as crucifix.
Sword collection has nothing to do with it: nobody displays his swords in the open on the Main Street.

Rick · 25th October 2006, 12:55 AM

I guess I would have to wonder if this were a crewman off a Danish trawler who had just got in from a trip and was wearing his sheath knife at his back in a dockside bar.
Has that scenario vanished from life in Denmark ?

Naga Sasra · 26th October 2006, 03:35 AM

I am with ariel on this one!

Having read the full text of the court ruling, it does give the answer to Rick's comment as the wearing of a knife in public is unlawful, UNLESS done in connection with a trade, hunting or in sports, so Rick the fisherman is okay

To wear a knife in public as part of a religious dress, do not qualify as an authorized justification to wear a knife.

This law cover ALL RELIGIONS.

As for the person involved, he is from India. Regarding moderation I am not even going there!

Battara · 26th October 2006, 09:01 PM

I wonder how much all of this restricts antique weaponry collecting.

Rick · 26th October 2006, 09:58 PM

Probably not at all.

Jens Nordlunde · 26th October 2006, 11:06 PM

I don't know, as i don't live in Denmark, but I will try to find out.

B.I · 1st November 2006, 01:57 PM

Hi Jens,
Have sent you a PM

24th October 2006, 05:38 PM	#1
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Kirpans not allowed A Sikh, has in Denmark, by the court been ordered not to bring his kirpan with him when he goes out. The knife was not sharp, and the judge acknowledged that it was a religious knife, but as he said ‘a knife is a knife’. This does not seem to make it any easier on the Danish collectors.

25th October 2006, 12:33 AM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I am not very sympathetic to the Sikh man: walking on the street, he will make an appearance of an armed person, an entity unheard of in Denmark. I do not think Danes have a duty to accomodate themselves to the religious expressions of a foreighner when these expressions clash severely with their national customs. After all, it is their country; it is the duty of the foreighner to decide whether he wants to settle in a country that bans his religious expressions. I would not support the right of Shia Muslims to have an Ashura procession in downtown Ann Arbor, with knives, chains, blood and gore; or any kind of animal sacrifice or public human mutilation. People can have any religious beliefs they wish; they just cannot expect to have a right to exercise them openly everywhere. There is a freedom of belief, not freedom of action. After all, Saudi Arabia does not allow consumption of alcohol even for sacramental purposes or public display of religious symbols, such as crucifix. Sword collection has nothing to do with it: nobody displays his swords in the open on the Main Street. Last edited by ariel; 25th October 2006 at 03:03 AM.

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24th October 2006, 09:16 PM	#2
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	What do you suppose will be next? Plastic knives? Tattoos? It happens a lot, but I am always disappointed in a judge when he/she says something along the lines of "My decision makes no sense, and the equities are in favor of the other side, but I'm ruling against them."

24th October 2006, 09:46 PM	#3
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 970	So, at this point, may we regard the Danes as a free people?

24th October 2006, 10:53 PM	#4
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,345	Certainly their authorities must be enlightened.

25th October 2006, 12:55 AM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,376	I guess I would have to wonder if this were a crewman off a Danish trawler who had just got in from a trip and was wearing his sheath knife at his back in a dockside bar. Has that scenario vanished from life in Denmark ?

26th October 2006, 03:35 AM	#7
Naga Sasra Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Boca Raton, Florida, USA Posts: 108	I am with ariel on this one! Having read the full text of the court ruling, it does give the answer to Rick's comment as the wearing of a knife in public is unlawful, UNLESS done in connection with a trade, hunting or in sports, so Rick the fisherman is okay To wear a knife in public as part of a religious dress, do not qualify as an authorized justification to wear a knife. This law cover ALL RELIGIONS. As for the person involved, he is from India. Regarding moderation I am not even going there!

26th October 2006, 09:01 PM	#8
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,345	I wonder how much all of this restricts antique weaponry collecting.

26th October 2006, 09:58 PM	#9
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,376	Probably not at all.

26th October 2006, 11:06 PM	#10
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	I don't know, as i don't live in Denmark, but I will try to find out.

1st November 2006, 01:57 PM	#11
B.I Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 485	Hi Jens, Have sent you a PM