Indian Whotsit for comment:

[kronckew]

Picked this one up cheaply at auction this afternoon. Was descrbed as a 'sword', I of course realised it was more than that.

Farengi? Kirach? Kanda? Poor picture, will hopefully get it soon and get rid of the active rust and get some better clues.

Straight blade, appears to have a rounded tip, tulwar grip with curved pommel spike with a ball end.

What shall I call it?

[ariel]

It is unlikely to be Kirach: those are single edged and usually ( here I am cautious) have a sharp point.

Firangi by definition use European blades , but there is too much rust to see any markings.
Thus, I am torn between Khanda and Tulwar.
However, here we get bogged in the linguistics. There are far too many languages in India and different ethnicities called the same things differently.
In a way, it is like asking what is a correct name for “ a sword from Europe” , a place roughly comparable in size to India, but infinitely poorer in the number of languages used. Sword? Schwert?Spada? Kard? Espada? Epee?

In the new Elgood’s book he shows blades he calls Khanda, but whose appearance is totally different from the “classic” khanda blades as per Rawson or Egerton. And, by the way, locally produced “ Firangi”-type swords were called Dhup and Asa Shamshir depending on their locality.

I would clean yours, hugged it and kissed it, and I would call it Khanda. If I am wrong, it would take it no more than couple centuries to accustom itself to a new moniker:-)

The curved pommel projection is ( also per Elgood) compatible with 17th century.

Hope it cleans well. I love those old and unpretentious things that saw a lot of battlefields but nary a single palace wall.

[Jens Nordlunde]

I am really glad the dealer thought it was a sword - help the rest of us collectors to recognise a sword when we see one:-).


I would love to see it cleaned, but I agree with Ariel that is most likely is a khanda, and the hilt is Mughal 17th century, unless the blade has been changed.
This does not mean that the hilt and the blade were 'born' together, but they could have been.

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

I am really glad the dealer thought it was a sword - help the rest of us collectors to recognise a sword when we see one:-).

...

They did manage to add 'Antique' to the front as further guidance, the full description was thus even more helpful, that pinned it down a lot.

Full description was two words, 'Antique sword' nothing else.

[Kmaddock]

The worse the description the better I find, as less chance of it being found from internet searches

I got a scissors katar that was labeled as
"farm implement, possibly for shearing sheep"
The auctioneer was shocked when I paid the 15 euro, someone bid me from the opening price of 10!!

I reckon we could have a thread on "Badly labeled auction lots"

I love the sword congratulations on pulling it out of obscurity.

Regards

ken
PS just realised it is in my avatar in my sons hand

[kronckew]

I have a rather nice presentation high status burmese fighting dha that the vendor (an older lady) was told by her son was a worthless 'Egyptian machete'. I told her what it ws after winning the ebay auction, she said she was going to kill him. Good thing she'd already posted the sword, she might have used it

It's not only "Caveat Emptor", but also "Caveat Venditor".

I seem to recall we discussed 'Worst vendor descriptions' here on the forum in the past.

[Jim McDougall]

I really like swords in this 'untouched' condition, they're the real deal and haven't been worked over by 'industrious' sellers. In cleaning, stay conservative please! That patination in 'history incarnate' and deserves to stay on this old warrior....just some WD40 to remove any active rust etc.

What to call this is truly irrelevant.....though properly the 'firangi' term applies to a sword with a 'foreign' blade. The khanda term is simply a term for sword in general usually in southern to central regions, and is typically used for the 'Hindu basket hilt' but actually is for the old open hilt forms as well.

Tulwar usually refers to the familiar 'Indo-Persian' hilt swords of the north and central regions, but again is a term broadly used for any sword...not otherwise specified. There are Deccani and Scinde etc. types with 'shamshir' type hilts referred to as 'tulwar'. The so called Afghan 'paluoar' is actually a tulwar but considered an Afghan style, even though actually Deccani.

In the native cavalry units, even the regulation British military sabres are termed 'tulwar'.


The 'name game' is mostly counter productive, and it is better to rely on worded description which considers the elements of the sword and notes probable regions of origin or influences.

The rebated point blade on this sword is unusual, and may be a European blade but it is unknown whether SE or DE or if markings....fullering or forte unclear. The canted pommel spike usually suggests a stem in the hilt motif and these it seems may be a Rajput affectation. On khandas (basket hilts) these are often (longer) thought to be for a second hand hold, but here obviously the stem type representation more likely.

Extremely nice, good solid old warrior!

[Jens Nordlunde]

The hole could be for a pin attached to a short chain attached to the scabbard to make sure the sword stays in the scabbard.
I have seen this on jade daggers - see below, but I have never seen this on swords. Sword scabbards often have a loop to keep the sword in place - see below. Mostly the loop is broken off, and only the 'fish tail' remains.

[kronckew]

Interesting! Thanks.

Sadly, no scabbard.