South Indian stone relief

Jens Nordlunde · 26th April 2009, 10:22 AM

The pictures are from an old stone relief from South India, and shows a fighting scene. Look at the sword the man to the right is using, it is almost a katar hilt, but the weapon is surely a sword, as it is too long to be a dagger. I am not sure, but I seem to remember that the text said it was from between the 12th and the 15th century. Can anyone tell more about it?

Jens Nordlunde · 26th April 2009, 03:45 PM

Looking closer at the relief, I doubt that I have remembered correctly. If you compare it to the ones shown in Elgood's book Hindu Arms and Ritual, it looks more like fifteenth or sixteenth century.
When the big picture is blown up, one can see that the man with the sword has a dagger at his side. I admit it is not easy to see, but notice that he has no scabbard for his sword.

P.Abrera · 26th April 2009, 05:45 PM

Perhaps it is meant to depict pata rather than jamdar/katar. Would the time frame of this relief be correct for this type of weapon?

ariel · 26th April 2009, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P.Abrera

Perhaps it is meant to depict pata rather than jamdar/katar. Would the time frame of this relief be correct for this type of weapon?

I always thought that Pata was later, more to the North and had flexible bade ( not to mentioning the shell). Tanjore katar, you mean? Might be, might be.

olikara · 26th April 2009, 08:44 PM

Jens,
The weapon seems to be a 'hooded' type of Katar - the early Vijaynagar type.

Yes, if the 'hooded' katar has a longer blade (very often firangi blades) we can call it a pata and we see this form of a pata used in Vijaynagar times too, but if you observe the warrior you also see him using a similar weapon in his left hand.

The Pata and khanda were probably the most difficult weapons to use in battle and I feel it would be difficult even for a very experienced warrior to use patas in both his hands.

So I believe the weapon is a Katar of the early hooded type.

The figure, if the weapons were hidden could also be from earlier times (Hoysala - 12th - 13th C. A.D.) but we do not see this form of a Katar or Pata used then and so I would say it is Vijaynagar (15-16th C. A.D.).

Nidhi

rand · 27th April 2009, 01:58 PM

Hello Jens,

Attached are some cropped photo's of temple statues also from Elgoods book, "Hindu Arms and Ritual" from page 148. They are of 16th century, Katars from Seshagirirayar Mandapa Ranganatha Temple, Srirangam.

rand

rand · 27th April 2009, 02:06 PM

More pics from Elgoods book showing examples of katar of type in stone statues...

rand

26th April 2009, 10:22 AM	#1
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	South Indian stone relief The pictures are from an old stone relief from South India, and shows a fighting scene. Look at the sword the man to the right is using, it is almost a katar hilt, but the weapon is surely a sword, as it is too long to be a dagger. I am not sure, but I seem to remember that the text said it was from between the 12th and the 15th century. Can anyone tell more about it? Attached Images

26th April 2009, 08:44 PM	#5
olikara Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: India Posts: 102	Early Katar Jens, The weapon seems to be a 'hooded' type of Katar - the early Vijaynagar type. Yes, if the 'hooded' katar has a longer blade (very often firangi blades) we can call it a pata and we see this form of a pata used in Vijaynagar times too, but if you observe the warrior you also see him using a similar weapon in his left hand. The Pata and khanda were probably the most difficult weapons to use in battle and I feel it would be difficult even for a very experienced warrior to use patas in both his hands. So I believe the weapon is a Katar of the early hooded type. The figure, if the weapons were hidden could also be from earlier times (Hoysala - 12th - 13th C. A.D.) but we do not see this form of a Katar or Pata used then and so I would say it is Vijaynagar (15-16th C. A.D.). Nidhi

27th April 2009, 01:58 PM	#6
rand Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 539	Katar Pics from Elgoods Book Hello Jens, Attached are some cropped photo's of temple statues also from Elgoods book, "Hindu Arms and Ritual" from page 148. They are of 16th century, Katars from Seshagirirayar Mandapa Ranganatha Temple, Srirangam. rand Attached Images

27th April 2009, 02:06 PM	#7
rand Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 539	More pics from Elgoods book showing examples of katar of type in stone statues... rand Attached Images

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26th April 2009, 03:45 PM	#2
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Looking closer at the relief, I doubt that I have remembered correctly. If you compare it to the ones shown in Elgood's book Hindu Arms and Ritual, it looks more like fifteenth or sixteenth century. When the big picture is blown up, one can see that the man with the sword has a dagger at his side. I admit it is not easy to see, but notice that he has no scabbard for his sword.

26th April 2009, 05:45 PM	#3
P.Abrera Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 20	Perhaps it is meant to depict pata rather than jamdar/katar. Would the time frame of this relief be correct for this type of weapon?