Indian bagh nakh (tiger claws)

[estcrh]

I just ran into some unusual examples, if anyone has some other images I would like to see them.

[Iliad]

Images of my two Tiger Claw Daggers.
Best regards to all.
Brian

[Emanuel]

Hello,

I think the top piece with the half-gauntlet is more of a parrying weapon like the saintie than a bagh nakh.

Emanuel

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Emanuel

Hello,

I think the top piece with the half-gauntlet is more of a parrying weapon like the saintie than a bagh nakh.

Emanuel

Emanual, a tiger claw emulates the claws of a tiger, a saintie is more of a spear. The one you question is listed by the owner as bagh nakh type weapon, it looks to me like it has more in common with a bagh nakh than either a saintie or sainti but it could have its own seperate name that I am not aware of.

Here are images of a saintie (lt) and a sainti (rt), both rather rare parrying weapons. Then you have the haladie (bottom).

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Iliad

Images of my two Tiger Claw Daggers.
Best regards to all.
Brian

Brian really nice examples, the one with the folding side blades looks a lot like the one I posted.

[Emanuel]

The example I question is a basically a small shield with blades on it. The bagh nakh is a small "glove" with claws hidden in the hand. One is a parrying weapon, the other is a small concealed weapon.

Santie/saintie may not be the name for it, but it is a parrying weapon.

I won't repost them here but I think you added some awesome parrying weapons on your Pinterest. They do seem to vary a lot, some more like the madu or the haladie, others more like jamadhar.

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Emanuel

The example I question is a basically a small shield with blades on it. The bagh nakh is a small "glove" with claws hidden in the hand. One is a parrying weapon, the other is a small concealed weapon.

Santie/saintie may not be the name for it, but it is a parrying weapon.

I won't repost them here but I think you added some awesome parrying weapons on your Pinterest. They do seem to vary a lot, some more like the madu or the haladie, others more like jamadhar.

Emanuel, Indian parrying weapons have one thing in common, side bars for parrying, the weapon you are questioning has no side bars so how can you parry a weapon with it. To me it appears to be an evolved type of bagh nakh, it has five blades instead of claws and it is grasped by bars instead of rings and and it shields the holders hand but its basic purpose seems to be the same.

[Emanuel]

I disagree with you Eric but I'll leave it at that.
It remains that these are fascinating weapons

[Roland_M]

I wonder how the first weapon will be used.


One of my books says, that the intention of the bagh nakh is to simulate a tiger attack, to hide an assassination.


Roland

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Roland_M

I wonder how the first weapon will be used.


One of my books says, that the intention of the bagh nakh is to simulate a tiger attack, to hide an assassination.


Roland

Roland I have read this is a couple of 1800s references. If you were an Indian national and you planned on killing a Britich national it would have made sense to try to make your crime look like the work of an animal.

I have also read that the bagh nakh was used in a type of one on one ritual combat.

"The Art of Attack: Being a Study in the Development of Weapons and Appliances of Offence, from the Earliest Times to the Age of Gunpowder", by Henry Swainson Cowper W. Holmes, Limited, Printers, 1906.

Wagnakhs are described by Rousselet (1864) as being used in combats held by the Gaekwar of Baroda. The antagonists were nude, intoxicated with hemp, and tore each other so that they often bled to death.

[ariel]

I am jumping in when all the relevant things were already said. Thus, just my personal opinion.
This cannot be a Bagh Nakh, because it is not hidden.


Some strange mix of a parrying shield, bazu band and multi blade katar.
India is full of bizarre combination weapons. Perhaps, this one was not very handy and the pattern withered away; hence the rarity.

Might have been devilishly hard to invent a name for such a mutt. Maltipoo or goldendoodle must have been child plays in comparison:-)

It has its charm, however.

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by ariel

I am jumping in when all the relevant things were already said. Thus, just my personal opinion. This cannot be a Bagh Nakh, because it is not hidden.

Ariel, there is no rule that bagh nakh have to be hidden, while some are small enough to wrap a hand around others are not, I do not believe that the ability to hide one in your hand determines whether a weapon is a bagh nakh/bagh nakh varient.

Manner of using the wagnuk, from: "Life in Bombay, and the neighbouring out-stations", Richard Bentley, 1852.

[Pukka Bundook]

Dear Estcrh,

I see no reason for you insisting that the weapon in the opening post of this thread is a bagh nakh, as it bears no resemblance to the small hidden devices by that name.
Neither can such a weapon be used as is a bagh nakh. Totally different.

Best wishes,
Richard.

[Rick]

Originally Posted by ariel

I am jumping in when all the relevant things were already said. Thus, just my personal opinion.
This cannot be a Bagh Nakh, because it is not hidden.


Some strange mix of a parrying shield, bazu band and multi blade katar.
India is full of bizarre combination weapons. Perhaps, this one was not very handy and the pattern withered away; hence the rarity.

Might have been devilishly hard to invent a name for such a mutt. Maltipoo or goldendoodle must have been child plays in comparison:-)

It has its charm, however.

But the ergonomics of this thing are all wrong for most any use that I can imagine.
I would love to see an illustration of exactly how this is deployed as a weapon.

[ariel]

Originally Posted by Rick

But the ergonomics of this thing are all wrong for most any use that I can imagine.
I would love to see an illustration of exactly how this is deployed as a weapon.

We are in agreement. That's exactly what I said about it: not very handy, hence very rare.

Even in India known for her abundance of bizarre forms, weapons that were mechanically unsound did not survive for long.
Bank with an over-curved blade is an example. Indians had a lot of imagination, but they were not dummies and a common sense always prevailed.

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Rick

But the ergonomics of this thing are all wrong for most any use that I can imagine.
I would love to see an illustration of exactly how this is deployed as a weapon.

Seems pretty easy to visualize, you grasp the handle and punch or slash with it.

[Tipperary]

I know this is an old topic but aimless scrolling as well as dusting down my collection has revealed that I have one of these triple bladed Katar/ arm daggers. I'm currently away from my collection notes but I recall it's illustrated in ACTirri , Islamic weapons Maghrib to Moghul. I am new to this forum so please forgive any errors.