Indian or African? all metal lance.

Tim Simmons · 24th November 2006, 05:06 PM

I have been lucky just lately

. That will probably end soon

. The cost of shipping with bad pics must of helped. I bought this thinking it was African maybe Congo or West Africa. It could be Asian, Indian. The way the decoration around the handle part spreads out and dissipates in a subtle way makes me think if it is Asian I would think it was from the North East Frontier wild tribes as they used to say. Personally I think this kind of subtly is more African

. I need some help on this one. I favour Africa but I would

. The total length is just over 152cm. The blade is 18cm long. The brass parts are approximately 4cm in diameter. It is heavy and could deliver a tremendous thrust.

katana · 24th November 2006, 07:10 PM

Well done Tim,
I saw this...and liked it alot....fortunately I changed priorities and blew the budget elsewhere (I'm not comfortable bidding against fellow formites....hence 'fortunately).

I felt it was more likely Indian, .....but where ever it came from...it's a very nice spear.....congrats...

Any idea as to the function of the two rings......perhaps to hold the ends of a strap/rope for carrying purposes

Tim Simmons · 24th November 2006, 07:57 PM

The rings are only free to move up untill the middle section swelling or handle. I could bet my last £ it is African, there is a challenge for you all

.

katana · 25th November 2006, 12:10 AM

Hi, Tim....am I right in saying that lances often had a form of sling ... to take alot of its weight. I was thinking that the rings were moveable, fixing points for some sort of sling. Even if the lance/spear was carried on foot.....when 'advancing with spears extended....with the sling over your shoulder (spear holding side) it would take a lot of the weight of the spear from the warrior..... would not impede the use of the spear in a thrusting action, due to the sliding rings, but would still have the weight to inflict devastating wounds.

I would love for this to be African.......still think its Indo-Persian

Lew · 25th November 2006, 12:56 AM

I am steering more towards African the spear is nice but does not exhibit the finesse a an Indo Persian weapon.

Below is an Ivory coast spear which I think could be Dan tribe.

Lew

Tim Simmons · 25th November 2006, 08:24 AM

Yet again something new from Africa. This lance weighs in at just under 2.5kg. It is quite possible a sling of some sort was used with the two rings.

Lew that is a fine lance indeed. How heavy is it? I bet mine is bigger and more weighty than yours

.

Tim Simmons · 26th November 2006, 10:19 AM

Could this be a "saintie" like weapon? surely it is too long and is not made to parry with. I still think the decoration is too informal for Indian work. But I know very little about old Indian weapons.

Tim Simmons · 29th November 2006, 04:46 PM

I think I am allowed to make this link. If I am wrong then please delete this post. This spear confirms my opinion that it is African and to be more precise Western Sahara. The spear in the link is labeled as Asian. In my opinion it is Mauritanian, African anyway. shame I have no money left.

http://www.michaeldlong.net/Ko-Bespo.../E3/131/103807

Lew · 29th November 2006, 04:56 PM

[QUOTE=Tim The spear in the link is labeled as Asian. In my opinion it is Mauritanian, African anyway. shame I have no money left.

Don't be sad Tim

I to suffer from the same disease it's called Fundsarlow syndrome

and it affects many of us here on the forum

Lew

Tim Simmons · 29th November 2006, 05:53 PM

A most ghastly affliction. I hope some medicine arrives on my work bench very soon.

VANDOO · 1st December 2006, 09:12 PM

TAKE A LOOK IN STONES PAGE 213 FIGURE 264 IT IS A SPEAR FROM TIBET REFERED TO AS DUNG. THE INFORMATION ON SOME OF ITS USES IS INTERESTING AND IT HAS THE CARRING STRAP. I DON'T THINK YOURS IS FROM TIBET AND HAVE SEEN EXAMPLES OF THE SHORT SPEARS WITH CARRING STRAP IN AFRICA THEY DO SEEM TO BE ASSOCIATED WITH RIDEING EITHER CAMMELS OR HORSE. ALSO LOOK AT STONES PAGE 536 FIGURE 685 FOR ANOTHER STRANGE SHORT SPEAR TYPE WEAPON.

Tim Simmons · 9th December 2007, 08:16 PM

Brought this back up after some cross referencing. Look at the blade in this post by Fernando. The blade form, decoration and brass work do have a remarkable similarity. It would be nice if this was so as I have just ebay'd what I hope is a very nice 33" blade Mandara sword.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=mandara

24th November 2006, 05:06 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	Indian or African? all metal lance. I have been lucky just lately . That will probably end soon . The cost of shipping with bad pics must of helped. I bought this thinking it was African maybe Congo or West Africa. It could be Asian, Indian. The way the decoration around the handle part spreads out and dissipates in a subtle way makes me think if it is Asian I would think it was from the North East Frontier wild tribes as they used to say. Personally I think this kind of subtly is more African . I need some help on this one. I favour Africa but I would . The total length is just over 152cm. The blade is 18cm long. The brass parts are approximately 4cm in diameter. It is heavy and could deliver a tremendous thrust. Attached Images

25th November 2006, 12:56 AM	#5
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	I am steering more towards African the spear is nice but does not exhibit the finesse a an Indo Persian weapon. Below is an Ivory coast spear which I think could be Dan tribe. Lew Attached Images

25th November 2006, 08:24 AM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	Yet again something new from Africa. This lance weighs in at just under 2.5kg. It is quite possible a sling of some sort was used with the two rings. Lew that is a fine lance indeed. How heavy is it? I bet mine is bigger and more weighty than yours . Last edited by Tim Simmons; 25th November 2006 at 08:50 AM.

29th November 2006, 04:46 PM	#8
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	I have read the rules I think I am allowed to make this link. If I am wrong then please delete this post. This spear confirms my opinion that it is African and to be more precise Western Sahara. The spear in the link is labeled as Asian. In my opinion it is Mauritanian, African anyway. shame I have no money left. http://www.michaeldlong.net/Ko-Bespo.../E3/131/103807

1st December 2006, 09:12 PM	#11
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	TAKE A LOOK IN STONES PAGE 213 FIGURE 264 IT IS A SPEAR FROM TIBET REFERED TO AS DUNG. THE INFORMATION ON SOME OF ITS USES IS INTERESTING AND IT HAS THE CARRING STRAP. I DON'T THINK YOURS IS FROM TIBET AND HAVE SEEN EXAMPLES OF THE SHORT SPEARS WITH CARRING STRAP IN AFRICA THEY DO SEEM TO BE ASSOCIATED WITH RIDEING EITHER CAMMELS OR HORSE. ALSO LOOK AT STONES PAGE 536 FIGURE 685 FOR ANOTHER STRANGE SHORT SPEAR TYPE WEAPON. Last edited by VANDOO; 1st December 2006 at 09:36 PM.

24th November 2006, 07:10 PM	#2
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Well done Tim, I saw this...and liked it alot....fortunately I changed priorities and blew the budget elsewhere (I'm not comfortable bidding against fellow formites....hence 'fortunately). I felt it was more likely Indian, .....but where ever it came from...it's a very nice spear.....congrats... Any idea as to the function of the two rings......perhaps to hold the ends of a strap/rope for carrying purposes

24th November 2006, 07:57 PM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	The rings are only free to move up untill the middle section swelling or handle. I could bet my last £ it is African, there is a challenge for you all .

25th November 2006, 12:10 AM	#4
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Hi, Tim....am I right in saying that lances often had a form of sling ... to take alot of its weight. I was thinking that the rings were moveable, fixing points for some sort of sling. Even if the lance/spear was carried on foot.....when 'advancing with spears extended....with the sling over your shoulder (spear holding side) it would take a lot of the weight of the spear from the warrior..... would not impede the use of the spear in a thrusting action, due to the sliding rings, but would still have the weight to inflict devastating wounds. I would love for this to be African.......still think its Indo-Persian

26th November 2006, 10:19 AM	#7
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	Could this be a "saintie" like weapon? surely it is too long and is not made to parry with. I still think the decoration is too informal for Indian work. But I know very little about old Indian weapons.

29th November 2006, 04:56 PM	#9
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	[QUOTE=Tim The spear in the link is labeled as Asian. In my opinion it is Mauritanian, African anyway. shame I have no money left. Don't be sad Tim I to suffer from the same disease it's called Fundsarlow syndrome and it affects many of us here on the forum Lew

29th November 2006, 05:53 PM	#10
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	A most ghastly affliction. I hope some medicine arrives on my work bench very soon.

9th December 2007, 08:16 PM	#12
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	Mandara? Brought this back up after some cross referencing. Look at the blade in this post by Fernando. The blade form, decoration and brass work do have a remarkable similarity. It would be nice if this was so as I have just ebay'd what I hope is a very nice 33" blade Mandara sword. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=mandara