Katzbalgers and Related Landsknecht Swords

Matchlock · 13th January 2012, 07:57 PM

Hi Jasper,

Here is an extremely similar sheath from the collection of a friend of mine, and it bears the date 1681 (!), which should make us very careful about dating items that soon turned into traditional objects.

Best,
Michael

cornelistromp · 13th January 2012, 09:40 PM

Hi michael,

thank your friend for sharing this scabbard.
Actually this beautiful scabbard looks more like the high relief sheath that was auctioned at Hermann Historica. but you're absolutely right because this model scabbard has been made for 200 years, makes it very difficult to date.

The very pronounced rings on my scabberd ( the design, I also noticed before on armour but try to remeber where), and the longer backpart for getting easily acces to the smaller knife and skewer, which both can been seen on Doering's drawings and the walters museum example, makes me date it to the mid 16th century.

here is also another basic version from chateau castlenaud.

best,

Matchlock · 13th January 2012, 10:32 PM

Hi Jasper,

Yes, the Castelnaud sheath retains notable roped and other early Renaissance decorative elements that clearly assign it to the 1530's, give or take a decade.

Thanks, and best,
Michael

cornelistromp · 14th January 2012, 09:28 AM

Hi Michael,

This is the dagger belonging together with the sheath.
The model of the sheath looks primarily 16th century, but when I see it together with the dagger, I think a 19th century reproduction can not be excluded.

best,

cornelistromp · 14th January 2012, 03:34 PM

Hi Michael,

I just remember where I have seen that similar "dot in line" design from my scabbard, it was on one of the pommels you placed from the Luzern Museum and on a 1/2 sword.

best,

Matchlock · 14th January 2012, 04:51 PM

Exactly, Jasper,

These are some of the decisive Early Renaissance elements!

And you are right, of course: that dagger is 19th c. fantasy.

Best,
Michael

fernando · 14th January 2012, 05:13 PM

Oh, i wish i could find a genuine hilt for my katzbalger

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=14555

13th January 2012, 07:57 PM	#1
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi Jasper, Here is an extremely similar sheath from the collection of a friend of mine, and it bears the date 1681 (!), which should make us very careful about dating items that soon turned into traditional objects. Best, Michael Attached Images

13th January 2012, 09:40 PM	#2
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,060	Hi michael, thank your friend for sharing this scabbard. Actually this beautiful scabbard looks more like the high relief sheath that was auctioned at Hermann Historica. but you're absolutely right because this model scabbard has been made for 200 years, makes it very difficult to date. The very pronounced rings on my scabberd ( the design, I also noticed before on armour but try to remeber where), and the longer backpart for getting easily acces to the smaller knife and skewer, which both can been seen on Doering's drawings and the walters museum example, makes me date it to the mid 16th century. here is also another basic version from chateau castlenaud. best, Attached Images Last edited by cornelistromp; 13th January 2012 at 10:13 PM.

14th January 2012, 09:28 AM	#4
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,060	Hi Michael, This is the dagger belonging together with the sheath. The model of the sheath looks primarily 16th century, but when I see it together with the dagger, I think a 19th century reproduction can not be excluded. best, Attached Images

14th January 2012, 03:34 PM	#5
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,060	Hi Michael, I just remember where I have seen that similar "dot in line" design from my scabbard, it was on one of the pommels you placed from the Luzern Museum and on a 1/2 sword. best, Attached Images

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13th January 2012, 10:32 PM	#3
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi Jasper, Yes, the Castelnaud sheath retains notable roped and other early Renaissance decorative elements that clearly assign it to the 1530's, give or take a decade. Thanks, and best, Michael

14th January 2012, 04:51 PM	#6
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Exactly, Jasper, These are some of the decisive Early Renaissance elements! And you are right, of course: that dagger is 19th c. fantasy. Best, Michael

14th January 2012, 05:13 PM	#7
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Oh, i wish i could find a genuine hilt for my katzbalger http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=14555