Katzbalgers and Related Landsknecht Swords

Samik · 6th October 2010, 04:18 PM

Many thanks gentlemen for uploading those marvelous pieces

To contribute I recently got this little gem into my hands called Régi Magyar Fegyverek by János Kalmár. It features a couple of early 16th century Hungarian swords that bear a great deal of "Landsknecht" (and most probably Italian) influence:

Sword of Hungarian monarch Louis II (the young king from Jagellionian dynasty who died at Mohacs in 1526) which looks very much like a period katzbalger:

closeup:

3 Hungarian swords from the first half of 16th century :

closeup:

Note the pallashe-like scabbard. Don't really know if these belong to the original pieces or had been a later addition...
(a bit of OT: they could in fact be an early verion of a pallashe, since such "italianate" sword-hilts were also fashionable on cavalry estocs of the period... some even among ottoman border troops! Still, to my eyes the swords seem a bit shortish for a cavalry weapon...)

Cheers,
Samuel

Matchlock · 6th October 2010, 05:05 PM

Great, Samuel, thank you,

Could you get me a copy of Janos Kalmar's Régi Magyar Fegyverek? I realize there existed an earlier 1970's edition but could not get hold of it. Is this a revised reprint as the original edition contained only very poor b/w photos?

Best,
Michael

Samik · 6th October 2010, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matchlock

Great, Samuel, thank you,

Could you get me a copy of Janos Kalmar's Régi Magyar Fegyverek? I realize there existed an earlier 1970's edition but could not get hold of it. Is this a revised reprint as the original edition contained only very poor b/w photos?

Best,
Michael

Check your PM

Matchlock · 6th October 2010, 08:22 PM

Done, pal, and answered!

Dmitry · 7th October 2010, 06:38 PM

I'm sorry to say that not sold on the 'historismus' bastard yet. I'm positive I've seen a similar hilt in a museum collection book, described as period. As usual, I don't remember where. Will comb through my library over the next few days.

Matchlock · 7th October 2010, 07:41 PM

Sold Bonhams, London, 29 April 2010.

Emanuel · 7th October 2010, 10:58 PM

You guys ROCK!

I've fallen in love and all of this Medieval/Renaissance pornography is making me sweat :Big Grin:

The 1.5 hander in the Musee de L'Armee recalls a wonderful 15th c. storta in Swords and Hilt Weapons (Nicholson, 1989)

Please keep it up, these threads are GOLD!

Best regards,
Emanuel

Dmitry · 8th October 2010, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emanuel

The 1.5 hander in the Musee de L'Armee recalls a wonderful 15th c. storta in Swords and Hilt Weapons (Nicholson, 1989)

The storta in your photo is in the Metropolitan Museum Collection. It's attributed to mid-16th c.
I make sure to look at it every time I visit the Met.

Emanuel · 8th October 2010, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dmitry

The storta in your photo is in the Metropolitan Museum Collection. It's attributed to mid-16th c.
I make sure to look at it every time I visit the Met.

Thanks, good to know. Weidenfeld and Nicholson (Swords and Hilt Weapons, 1989) where I got the photo dated it to 1490. Magnificent example! I will certainly make a point of visiting the Met when I get to NY.

Matchlock · 8th October 2010, 04:17 PM

Please do and take close-ups!

m

Matchlock · 8th October 2010, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emanuel

You guys ROCK!

I've fallen in love and all of this Medieval/Renaissance pornography is making me sweat :Big Grin:

Please keep it up, these threads are GOLD!

Best regards,
Emanuel

Hi Emanuel,

I didn't realize this was a porn forum ...

- but of course I grasped your point and say thanks!

Best,
Michael

Emanuel · 8th October 2010, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matchlock

Hi Emanuel,

I didn't realize this was a porn forum ...

- but of course I grasped your point and say thanks!

Best,
Michael

To formalize my earlier outburst, since I started collecting arms, I've focused on ethnographic, non-European weapons out of interest and due to economic limitations. Pre-19th century European has remained thoroughly out of my league, as have Nihonto and most Persian and Caucasian arms. The efforts you folks have made in putting all of this material on the forum and sharing your knowledge and experience have made Euro arms so much more accessible.

Thank you once again.
Emanuel

Matchlock · 8th October 2010, 04:37 PM

Hi Emanuel,

I do appreciate your comment and thank you in return.
Me, on the other hand, I don't now the least on ethnographic arms ...

And: weapons, to many men, actually seem to have some kind of eroticism - I can't deny that for myself ... I mean they are not exactly 'sexy' but they sure they are fascinating and thrilling!

Best,

Michael

6th October 2010, 04:18 PM	#1
Samik Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Slovakia Posts: 48	Landsknecht related swords from The historical kingdom of Hungary Many thanks gentlemen for uploading those marvelous pieces To contribute I recently got this little gem into my hands called Régi Magyar Fegyverek by János Kalmár. It features a couple of early 16th century Hungarian swords that bear a great deal of "Landsknecht" (and most probably Italian) influence: Sword of Hungarian monarch Louis II (the young king from Jagellionian dynasty who died at Mohacs in 1526) which looks very much like a period katzbalger: closeup: 3 Hungarian swords from the first half of 16th century : closeup: Note the pallashe-like scabbard. Don't really know if these belong to the original pieces or had been a later addition... (a bit of OT: they could in fact be an early verion of a pallashe, since such "italianate" sword-hilts were also fashionable on cavalry estocs of the period... some even among ottoman border troops! Still, to my eyes the swords seem a bit shortish for a cavalry weapon...) Cheers, Samuel

6th October 2010, 05:05 PM	#2
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Great, Samuel, thank you, Could you get me a copy of Janos Kalmar's Régi Magyar Fegyverek? I realize there existed an earlier 1970's edition but could not get hold of it. Is this a revised reprint as the original edition contained only very poor b/w photos? Best, Michael Last edited by Matchlock; 6th October 2010 at 06:21 PM.

7th October 2010, 07:41 PM	#6
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Sold Bonhams, London, 29 April 2010. Attached Images

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6th October 2010, 08:22 PM	#4
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Done, pal, and answered!

7th October 2010, 06:38 PM	#5
Dmitry Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 607	I'm sorry to say that not sold on the 'historismus' bastard yet. I'm positive I've seen a similar hilt in a museum collection book, described as period. As usual, I don't remember where. Will comb through my library over the next few days.

7th October 2010, 10:58 PM	#7
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	You guys ROCK! I've fallen in love and all of this Medieval/Renaissance pornography is making me sweat :Big Grin: The 1.5 hander in the Musee de L'Armee recalls a wonderful 15th c. storta in Swords and Hilt Weapons (Nicholson, 1989) Please keep it up, these threads are GOLD! Best regards, Emanuel

8th October 2010, 04:17 PM	#10
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Please do and take close-ups! m

8th October 2010, 04:37 PM	#13
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi Emanuel, I do appreciate your comment and thank you in return. Me, on the other hand, I don't now the least on ethnographic arms ... And: weapons, to many men, actually seem to have some kind of eroticism - I can't deny that for myself ... I mean they are not exactly 'sexy' but they sure they are fascinating and thrilling! Best, Michael