Kattara for comments

Michael Blalock · 15th November 2011, 12:45 AM

Attached are some close-ups of the three marks on this blade.
While taking these I realized that this is not a stiff blade.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 15th November 2011, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Blalock

Attached are some close-ups of the three marks on this blade.
While taking these I realized that this is not a stiff blade.

Salaams Michael,
Nice pictures thanks. I can see a series of marks at the throat below the cross which could indicate a date? Or they could be accidental.

When you say not stiff ... does the blade flex through 90 degrees easily or are we looking at a fairly rigid example as at # 1 ?

Are these orb and cross Peter Cull marks without the orb... or fake strikes? I mean "copied strikes" as fake is a bit steep. On the other hand are these cross strikes not simply part of a bigger insignia that didn't get completed such as the tower mark which does seem to have a similar tool mark in its foundations?

The tower mark looks familiar..There is a full tower mark at #84 and the cross marks look identical to the # 1. I wonder however, if in fact, the tower mark on your sword is a variation on the God is Great insignia as a representative piece of calligraphy(albeit with mallet and chisel)

Regards Ibrahiim

Michael Blalock · 15th November 2011, 04:59 PM

The marks on the last picture of the blade do look like remants of lettering to me but I can't make anything out. Maybe the guys at the FBI who can read filed off serial numbers could read it. I could try various spectrum of light.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 16th November 2011, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Blalock

The marks on the last picture of the blade do look like remants of lettering to me but I can't make anything out. Maybe the guys at the FBI who can read filed off serial numbers could read it. I could try various spectrum of light.

Salaams... What you mean the Forum Blade Investigators?

Regards Ibrahiim

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 20th November 2011, 04:13 PM

Salaams All,

The investigation continues and we are at a crossroads in the research rather than a stall point. Various additional information has come to light including the alternative use of a sandal as a shield in the absence of the Terrs and some indicators of stamp maker marks on old Kattara from the interior plus a very recent pair of perhaps old 18th C curved Sayf blades possibly from Salalah with identical "god is great stamps" different to any seen so far.

I offer the following framework so far uncovered to date;

We have concluded that extensive evidence indicates an early Abbasid influenced straight sword, rigid, with turned down quillons, 8 sided hilt and Islamic pommel with occasionally blade dots; Sword variously Shown on this thread. Date of design and inception 751 AD , parallel with the appearance in Oman of The First Immam, Ibn Julanda. The early Kattara used as the "Heraldic" Ibathi Sword used against the Abbasids garrisoned in Oman whose Caliphs in Iraq vehemently disagreed with the formation of the splinter group Ibathi sect.

Thus; The Omani Sword known as Kattara used in unison with the Terrs Shield and displayed in the Funoon as both an ancient ritual parade sword dance and mimic martial dance notably in The Razha; The Sword Dance... in the mid 8thC. A.D.

The sword went on for a thousand years or more (Gaining Iconic status in the last 200 years) though perhaps in the 17th C a replacement thinner lighter more flexible blade appeared possibly from European sources. It is likely that with the advent of gunpowder sparked the demise of bladed weapons though the loss of expertise in making original wing shaped cross sectioned blades may also have led to the cheaper replacements. In fact the story could be a reversal of that since all males over about 16 years of age are eligible to yield a Kattara and that more men now have a sword for ritual dancing than ever before.

Some time later perhaps in the 18th ? 19th C a complete sword appeared i.e. blade hilt and pommel as one piece. This blade was very Flexible capable of a 90 degree bend from the spatulate tip. It was to revolutionise the Funoon. It has been suggested it is a European Trade Blade though no solid proof exists. The blades carry a variety of blademarks many of which are fake or copies. No ships manifests have yet been discovered of numbers of blades in the hold for delivery to Oman. It is suggested by association that since Africa was awash with German blades then Oman must also have been. Yet no evidence exists, no other place in the Red Sea, Africa, Yemen India or Iran sport these blades. They are entirely specific to Oman and no blade stamps are conclusive as to origin. Tantalising blades similar but not flexible and much thicker seem to come from Saudia and or Yemen as #1 on this thread which may or may not be related and carry distinctive blade marks suggested as being either a european copy (Peter Cull cross) or Islamic forms of Akhbar(great) short calligraphy form of the god is great stamp.

This was a dancing sword and could be buzzed in the air. Whats more it was peculiar to Oman only and the reason why it turned up in Zanzibar was because Oman owned it.. The sword encompassed the Terrs and inherited the name Kattara.

The point of the research is to try to define where did the new blades originate and when?

By normal trade inside Oman, through and between souqs, recent blades (aprox within the last 100 years) appear. Two known sources are Ras Al Khaimah and Salalah. It is likely that other centres have knocked out suitably made blades including Nizwa and Muscat. How much has leaked into Oman from Yemen, Persia, India, Sri Lanka, Zanzibar, Africa, Europe or other centres is unknown but is probably substantial. It could be that in searching for a mass influx at some point in time in the last 200 years of a vast quantity of blades is in fact chasing shadows but we are not alone in history and perhaps the art of "tilting at windmills" is still alive.

The search continues.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

I will show the pair of Salalah Sayf in my next letter ..In detail... It may come as a shock to some...

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 20th November 2011, 06:14 PM

Salaams All,

Here are some pictures of a pair of identical blade marks made on apparently two different blade types at the same time and at the same position on each blade and on each side. I noted in my previous letter of swords leaching into the Omani system over the years however I would ask the forum a question;

~ Looking at the wear on these blades what would you attribute their age and where would you reckon they are from ~ ?

These of course are curved Omani Sayfs aren't they?... which attained Iconic status like a number of other Omani variants according to photos of various Sultans up to late 19thC and early 20th C. Known Iconic swords worn thus are Shamshir, Sayf, Zanzibari Nimcha, and Kattara both new and old(though, interestingly, not the somewhat fabled 17th C replacement variant blade for the old Kattara.)

The stamp is "God is Great" though in a form I have not, til now, seen. I would ignore the scabbards in both cases and hilt decoration as having been done relatively recently and of no significance perhaps.

Regards Ibrahiim.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 21st November 2011, 06:02 PM

Salaams Forum,

Salaams, I have an important note for Forum,

Reference Motivate Publishing. The Craft Herritage of Oman. By Neil Richardson and Marcia Dorr in two volumes.

I have said that the straight weapon was called Kattara whilst the curved is called a Sayf. This is true and untrue to the extent that ;

1. Regionally there appears to be some flexible name useage/mixup.
2. People I ask just guess and say the first thing in their heads!
3. People don't know.

Here I give warning notice that we may have got it all the wrong way round.

The straight is a Sayf and the curved is a Kattara.

My reference is The Great Herritage of Oman by Richardson and Dorr, page 230. and page 455. I can seriously reccommend this book as the Omani artefact book .. The best I have seen... It even has reference pictures from My Fathers old store! I am embarrased somewhat by the fact that for decades I have been wrongly naming and referring to the swords when in fact they are the other way around....!!!

I started asking people a few months ago which was which and to my horror I realised no one had any proof and most were, as usual, guessing. Omani people call all swords Sayf or Saif or Kattara depending on which way the wind is blowing !! and come to think of it ... it makes little or no difference to them anyway. Trying to research under that arrangement drives me crazy !!

Forum please note! Straight Omani Swords are called Sayf and curved are Kattara. ~ I am very embarrassed and for the rest of the week I shall be wearing a set of donkeys ears !!

A curved Kattara in the Bait al Zubair collection looks to be 18/19thC and attributed possibly to German origin. (page 455 same ref.) The book also illustrates other curved kattara from Persia but used in Oman.

So the straight weapon is a Saif, The curved is a Kattara (or Kittara). There is another with a flambouyant wavy edge and a single fuller called Saif abu Falq. The blades with 3 fullers are termed abu thalath musayil. I heard the term for the first time today to describe the old Omani sword (turned down quillons ) as Yemeni Sayf !! though I proceed with great care along that road.

Some mystique continues to surround all things Omani and questions still arise in all sectors on origins particularly the so called European trade blades? I see a new derivative on the Old Omani Sword with a Royal Sa- idiyyah hilt. Regarding Ters Shields it is rumoured they came from Zanzibar and are of some amphibious animal hide that could be either/or Whale, Hippo, Rhino or Waterbuffalo.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 4th January 2012, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Blalock

Attached are some close-ups of the three marks on this blade.
While taking these I realized that this is not a stiff blade.

Salaams Michael Blalock ~ Please SEE #6 on Ricks "Maker Mark ID" upon which I have commented on that thread.

Compare the Algerian Gun breach mark to your blade mark. Translated it appears to say Amal...(Acccording to Dom) and it looks very like the mark on your sword... All the letters are there stacked in almost identical stylised form. Thus the lid appears to be popped on origin of your Sword Mark... Algeria !

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Note; I ask the question of the cross on the sword as being a short form of this mark.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 10th February 2012, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams Michael Blalock ~ Please SEE #6 on Ricks "Maker Mark ID" upon which I have commented on that thread.

Compare the Algerian Gun breach mark to your blade mark. Translated it appears to say Amal...(Acccording to Dom) and it looks very like the mark on your sword... All the letters are there stacked in almost identical stylised form. Thus the lid appears to be popped on origin of your Sword Mark... Algeria !

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Note; I ask the question of the cross on the sword as being a short form of this mark.

Salaams Michael Blalock ~ I continue to work in the background upon this thread and noted that you had as yet not replied to the above which appears to solve the question pointing to Algeria as a probable stamp for both sword and gun marks; in a short, stacked form of arabic script. This is not to say that other countries did not use the same stamp format. It is however an indicator. I have not seen that "specific stamp" on Omani work. What this suggests is that your sword traversed the Red Sea and became formatted with a broad Omani Style but that its origins are elsewhere.
As a side issue I wonder if the very short form of this stamp is in fact a very simple cross placed by the owner rather than the maker?

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

21st November 2011, 06:02 PM	#7
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Some important corrections to Terminology of Omani swords. Salaams Forum, Salaams, I have an important note for Forum, Reference Motivate Publishing. The Craft Herritage of Oman. By Neil Richardson and Marcia Dorr in two volumes. I have said that the straight weapon was called Kattara whilst the curved is called a Sayf. This is true and untrue to the extent that ; 1. Regionally there appears to be some flexible name useage/mixup. 2. People I ask just guess and say the first thing in their heads! 3. People don't know. Here I give warning notice that we may have got it all the wrong way round. The straight is a Sayf and the curved is a Kattara. My reference is The Great Herritage of Oman by Richardson and Dorr, page 230. and page 455. I can seriously reccommend this book as the Omani artefact book .. The best I have seen... It even has reference pictures from My Fathers old store! I am embarrased somewhat by the fact that for decades I have been wrongly naming and referring to the swords when in fact they are the other way around....!!! I started asking people a few months ago which was which and to my horror I realised no one had any proof and most were, as usual, guessing. Omani people call all swords Sayf or Saif or Kattara depending on which way the wind is blowing !! and come to think of it ... it makes little or no difference to them anyway. Trying to research under that arrangement drives me crazy !! Forum please note! Straight Omani Swords are called Sayf and curved are Kattara. ~ I am very embarrassed and for the rest of the week I shall be wearing a set of donkeys ears !! A curved Kattara in the Bait al Zubair collection looks to be 18/19thC and attributed possibly to German origin. (page 455 same ref.) The book also illustrates other curved kattara from Persia but used in Oman. So the straight weapon is a Saif, The curved is a Kattara (or Kittara). There is another with a flambouyant wavy edge and a single fuller called Saif abu Falq. The blades with 3 fullers are termed abu thalath musayil. I heard the term for the first time today to describe the old Omani sword (turned down quillons ) as Yemeni Sayf !! though I proceed with great care along that road. Some mystique continues to surround all things Omani and questions still arise in all sectors on origins particularly the so called European trade blades? I see a new derivative on the Old Omani Sword with a Royal Sa- idiyyah hilt. Regarding Ters Shields it is rumoured they came from Zanzibar and are of some amphibious animal hide that could be either/or Whale, Hippo, Rhino or Waterbuffalo. Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

15th November 2011, 12:45 AM	#1
Michael Blalock Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: dc Posts: 271	Attached are some close-ups of the three marks on this blade. While taking these I realized that this is not a stiff blade. Attached Images

15th November 2011, 04:59 PM	#3
Michael Blalock Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: dc Posts: 271	The marks on the last picture of the blade do look like remants of lettering to me but I can't make anything out. Maybe the guys at the FBI who can read filed off serial numbers could read it. I could try various spectrum of light.

20th November 2011, 04:13 PM	#5
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Salaams All, The investigation continues and we are at a crossroads in the research rather than a stall point. Various additional information has come to light including the alternative use of a sandal as a shield in the absence of the Terrs and some indicators of stamp maker marks on old Kattara from the interior plus a very recent pair of perhaps old 18th C curved Sayf blades possibly from Salalah with identical "god is great stamps" different to any seen so far. I offer the following framework so far uncovered to date; We have concluded that extensive evidence indicates an early Abbasid influenced straight sword, rigid, with turned down quillons, 8 sided hilt and Islamic pommel with occasionally blade dots; Sword variously Shown on this thread. Date of design and inception 751 AD , parallel with the appearance in Oman of The First Immam, Ibn Julanda. The early Kattara used as the "Heraldic" Ibathi Sword used against the Abbasids garrisoned in Oman whose Caliphs in Iraq vehemently disagreed with the formation of the splinter group Ibathi sect. Thus; The Omani Sword known as Kattara used in unison with the Terrs Shield and displayed in the Funoon as both an ancient ritual parade sword dance and mimic martial dance notably in The Razha; The Sword Dance... in the mid 8thC. A.D. The sword went on for a thousand years or more (Gaining Iconic status in the last 200 years) though perhaps in the 17th C a replacement thinner lighter more flexible blade appeared possibly from European sources. It is likely that with the advent of gunpowder sparked the demise of bladed weapons though the loss of expertise in making original wing shaped cross sectioned blades may also have led to the cheaper replacements. In fact the story could be a reversal of that since all males over about 16 years of age are eligible to yield a Kattara and that more men now have a sword for ritual dancing than ever before. Some time later perhaps in the 18th ? 19th C a complete sword appeared i.e. blade hilt and pommel as one piece. This blade was very Flexible capable of a 90 degree bend from the spatulate tip. It was to revolutionise the Funoon. It has been suggested it is a European Trade Blade though no solid proof exists. The blades carry a variety of blademarks many of which are fake or copies. No ships manifests have yet been discovered of numbers of blades in the hold for delivery to Oman. It is suggested by association that since Africa was awash with German blades then Oman must also have been. Yet no evidence exists, no other place in the Red Sea, Africa, Yemen India or Iran sport these blades. They are entirely specific to Oman and no blade stamps are conclusive as to origin. Tantalising blades similar but not flexible and much thicker seem to come from Saudia and or Yemen as #1 on this thread which may or may not be related and carry distinctive blade marks suggested as being either a european copy (Peter Cull cross) or Islamic forms of Akhbar(great) short calligraphy form of the god is great stamp. This was a dancing sword and could be buzzed in the air. Whats more it was peculiar to Oman only and the reason why it turned up in Zanzibar was because Oman owned it.. The sword encompassed the Terrs and inherited the name Kattara. The point of the research is to try to define where did the new blades originate and when? By normal trade inside Oman, through and between souqs, recent blades (aprox within the last 100 years) appear. Two known sources are Ras Al Khaimah and Salalah. It is likely that other centres have knocked out suitably made blades including Nizwa and Muscat. How much has leaked into Oman from Yemen, Persia, India, Sri Lanka, Zanzibar, Africa, Europe or other centres is unknown but is probably substantial. It could be that in searching for a mass influx at some point in time in the last 200 years of a vast quantity of blades is in fact chasing shadows but we are not alone in history and perhaps the art of "tilting at windmills" is still alive. The search continues. Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi. I will show the pair of Salalah Sayf in my next letter ..In detail... It may come as a shock to some...

20th November 2011, 06:14 PM	#6
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Salaams All, Here are some pictures of a pair of identical blade marks made on apparently two different blade types at the same time and at the same position on each blade and on each side. I noted in my previous letter of swords leaching into the Omani system over the years however I would ask the forum a question; ~ Looking at the wear on these blades what would you attribute their age and where would you reckon they are from ~ ? These of course are curved Omani Sayfs aren't they?... which attained Iconic status like a number of other Omani variants according to photos of various Sultans up to late 19thC and early 20th C. Known Iconic swords worn thus are Shamshir, Sayf, Zanzibari Nimcha, and Kattara both new and old(though, interestingly, not the somewhat fabled 17th C replacement variant blade for the old Kattara.) The stamp is "God is Great" though in a form I have not, til now, seen. I would ignore the scabbards in both cases and hilt decoration as having been done relatively recently and of no significance perhaps. Regards Ibrahiim. Attached Images Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 20th November 2011 at 06:31 PM.