A Very Old Kris

[migueldiaz]

Originally Posted by Battara

I will also make one more note. Antonio de Morga in the 1600s wrote about his travels in the region. In his section on the Philippines, he gives a poor description but mentions the "unusual" form of what the natives call a balarao. This term is still used at the turn of the century for the Mandayan dagger like this one from my collection below:

Jose, that Mandaya dagger to me is like a coelecanth, a living fossil! What would be the cross-sectional shape of the tang? Thanks.

[Battara]

Originally Posted by migueldiaz

Jose, that Mandaya dagger to me is like a coelecanth, a living fossil! What would be the cross-sectional shape of the tang? Thanks.

I whole heartedly agree, Lorenz!

The tang is a square and tapers to a point at the distal end.

[Spunjer]

so i reckon this kris is older than dirt then, right? lol, just kidding

excellent discussion so far guys, please keep it up. lorenz my friend, your research has come a long way since our last conversation on this subject matter! very impressive!!! please keep it up. i really thought we could get together for some sarsi and sisig this coming january for my bro's wedding, but since that was cancelled i will have to wait another year, lol.
on the side note, i can't help but notice the similarity of the wirework form the gold handle dagger handle on top of this page to sajen's gunong:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=15927

[Gustav]

Spunjer, your kris share some similar features with this one, which perhaps even could be older, becouse it appears to have posessed a straight gonjo once:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=15256

The tang of this one is disturbed, yet it also seems to be between square and rounded.

We will never know, how looks like the tang of this one, also straight gonjo:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13785

It seems to me also, the two linked kris are older becouse of features of Gandhik.They are close to very close to Javanese keris; the gandhik of your kris is already almost like this strange mixed Maguindanao/Maranao gandhik, which pops up so often in the last time.

Perhaps is your kris a very early Mindanao kris?

[Battara]

I would say that the top one of your pictures (the one with the early golden hilt) is Sulu, although that early back we are not as sure because there are few examples from that period.

[Gustav]

Originally Posted by Battara

I would say that the top one of your pictures (the one with the early golden hilt) is Sulu, although that early back we are not as sure because there are few examples from that period.

I ask me if there are non-Sulu krises with straight gonjo at all. If it would be true, we could suppose the straight gonjo dissapeared (or nearly dissapeared) before kris reached Mindanao (from Sulu).

One more kris with straight gonjo Gavin sold a time ago:

http://www.swordsantiqueweapons.com/s250_full.html

Spunjer's kris is really interesting becouse of its very complete early kris features, together with Gandhik area which looks Mindanao to me.

Would you agree on it?

[Battara]

Oh no question that Spunger's kris is an early kris (with a great blade!).