Pair of Moro Barong

carlitobrigante · 14th November 2010, 05:12 PM

Hi all

Another couple of recent aquisitions. Have wanted a nice pair of barong for a while now.

The first has a 15 1/2 inch blade. Described as 19th cent from the sulu region.

Very interested if someone could confirm what are the reliable indicators of age on these, and what features help date them. I believe the punto is silver, which does point to it being an older example.

The 2nd is abit more ornate and has a longer blade. Lovely intricate carvings. Terrific pattern and hardened edge clearly visible.

Unfortunately it hasnt been cared for particulary well, had a couple of red rust finger print marks on the blade i had to take care of, the blade is every so slightly loose in the hilt also. In my opinion this one is 20th century??

Any info any one can add as always is greatly appreciated.

carlitobrigante · 14th November 2010, 05:13 PM

more pics

Atlantia · 14th November 2010, 05:21 PM

Thats a cracking pair you've got there mate!

Rick · 14th November 2010, 05:23 PM

Cato had a theory that one could judge the era from the carving at the end of the handle .

Try to find a copy of Moro Swords by Robert Cato; also a few hours spent here going through the archives would, quite possibly, be even more rewarding .

Search terms :
Barong
Barung

carlitobrigante · 14th November 2010, 05:28 PM

thanks Rick, i have been looking through the treasure trove that is this sites archive, a wealth of info there that im still looking through. As for Catos book, ive been searching for a copy for a while now, but its a bugger to track down, and the one time i did it was priced out of my reach anyway :-(

thats very interesting if he thinks the hilt carvings can tell us a rough date. Aswell as that then im told the smaller blades tend to be older?? The use of silver in the fittings can mean its older. And am i right in saying aswell that the use of mother on pearl on the scabbard denotes its most likely 20th century?? Anything else anyone know of that helps date these???

If anyones got any scans of any pages i would be forever in your debt if you could share. Failing that if anyone could email what the book says about the handle carvings that would be fantastic also.

For some reason the pics ive attached have been put into wrong order, incase it isnt obvious the 3rd pic down, the blade belongs to the one with the ornate hilt, the 5th pic down is the blade of the older barong.

Battara · 14th November 2010, 06:24 PM

I feel that the first one is 1900 to early 20th century and the second one based on the hilt style is 1920s from the Samal people in around Sulu.

Nice laminations on both pieces and great early Samal carvings on the scabbard (the 2nd piece).

Rick · 14th November 2010, 11:03 PM

Yes, those carvings are quite excellent; the uniformity and symmetry of the individual forms are masterfully executed .

I almost thought it to be embossed at first glance !

kai · 15th November 2010, 02:01 AM

Nice start for a barung collection!

Both blades may well be 19th c. IMHO and I'd be tempted to repolish and etch the longer one (or both). Just a hunch - I'm wondering wether with the Samal barung only the pommel might have been replaced during the 20th c.?

Both scabbards appear to be of good quality. Tips(feet) of both scabbards have been broken off (happens a lot); the Tausug(?) piece with another break on the other side of the throat.

Please post close-ups when you receive these!

Quote:

thats very interesting if he thinks the hilt carvings can tell us a rough date.

The hilt does seem to be the best indicator, especially since scabbards might get replaced/swapped. The rectangular beak seems to appear in some late 19th c. barung; the crest coming out from the curved hilt as a solid (often quite triangular) block rather than extending as a more-or-less floral ornament from the tip of the pommel is a 20th c. development.

Quote:

Aswell as that then im told the smaller blades tend to be older??

Size and shape of the blades do vary. Very large or very slender blades are likely to be less old (i.e. not antique) but there may be exceptions...

Quote:

The use of silver in the fittings can mean its older.

Silver (or at least silver plate) is pretty much standard for traditional barung regardless of age, even for plain warrior pieces. There are some antique examples with brass sleeves though.

Quote:

And am i right in saying aswell that the use of mother on pearl on the scabbard denotes its most likely 20th century??

Yes.

Quote:

Anything else anyone know of that helps date these???

Wear/patina, wood quality, carving quality, etc.

Quote:

For some reason the pics ive attached have been put into wrong order

You need to load them up seperately if you want to show them in any given order.

Regards,
Kai

Spunjer · 15th November 2010, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Both scabbards appear to be of good quality. Tips(feet) of both scabbards have been broken off (happens a lot); the Tausug(?) piece with another break on the other side of the throat.

Actually kai, the scabbard toe on the first one was designed to match the hilt, which is pungkol (limbless is it?) style, one that doesn't have a beak nor a crest. So i'm pretty sure the scabbard is original to the blade on this one.

14th November 2010, 05:12 PM	#1
carlitobrigante Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Solihull, UK Posts: 81	Pair of Moro Barong Hi all Another couple of recent aquisitions. Have wanted a nice pair of barong for a while now. The first has a 15 1/2 inch blade. Described as 19th cent from the sulu region. Very interested if someone could confirm what are the reliable indicators of age on these, and what features help date them. I believe the punto is silver, which does point to it being an older example. The 2nd is abit more ornate and has a longer blade. Lovely intricate carvings. Terrific pattern and hardened edge clearly visible. Unfortunately it hasnt been cared for particulary well, had a couple of red rust finger print marks on the blade i had to take care of, the blade is every so slightly loose in the hilt also. In my opinion this one is 20th century?? Any info any one can add as always is greatly appreciated. Attached Images Last edited by carlitobrigante; 15th November 2010 at 12:12 AM.

14th November 2010, 05:13 PM	#2
carlitobrigante Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Solihull, UK Posts: 81	more pics Attached Images

14th November 2010, 05:28 PM	#5
carlitobrigante Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Solihull, UK Posts: 81	thanks Rick, i have been looking through the treasure trove that is this sites archive, a wealth of info there that im still looking through. As for Catos book, ive been searching for a copy for a while now, but its a bugger to track down, and the one time i did it was priced out of my reach anyway :-( thats very interesting if he thinks the hilt carvings can tell us a rough date. Aswell as that then im told the smaller blades tend to be older?? The use of silver in the fittings can mean its older. And am i right in saying aswell that the use of mother on pearl on the scabbard denotes its most likely 20th century?? Anything else anyone know of that helps date these??? If anyones got any scans of any pages i would be forever in your debt if you could share. Failing that if anyone could email what the book says about the handle carvings that would be fantastic also. For some reason the pics ive attached have been put into wrong order, incase it isnt obvious the 3rd pic down, the blade belongs to the one with the ornate hilt, the 5th pic down is the blade of the older barong. Last edited by carlitobrigante; 14th November 2010 at 05:40 PM.

14th November 2010, 05:21 PM	#3
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Thats a cracking pair you've got there mate!

14th November 2010, 05:23 PM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,268	Cato had a theory that one could judge the era from the carving at the end of the handle . Try to find a copy of Moro Swords by Robert Cato; also a few hours spent here going through the archives would, quite possibly, be even more rewarding . Search terms : Barong Barung

14th November 2010, 06:24 PM	#6
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,143	I feel that the first one is 1900 to early 20th century and the second one based on the hilt style is 1920s from the Samal people in around Sulu. Nice laminations on both pieces and great early Samal carvings on the scabbard (the 2nd piece).

14th November 2010, 11:03 PM	#7
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,268	Yes, those carvings are quite excellent; the uniformity and symmetry of the individual forms are masterfully executed . I almost thought it to be embossed at first glance !