About the Dussäge

[Marc]

I know the one you mean. It’s beautiful.

"Dussack", "Dussäge"... is quite used, generically, to describe short, curved swords of centre-north European origin from about 15th - 18th c., as well as the training instruments utilised to learn its use.. Many featured a yelman of sorts, and can be related to what later was known as a "cutlass". To find pieces similar to the one you saw, though, you may have better luck searching for "Sinclair Sabre" or Saber. This is how many of those were labelled by the XIX c. collectors/academics due to a spurious history that linked the spread of those in Europe to a Scottish mercenary and his men, who were allegedly defeated in an ambush in Norway. The story goes saying that from the basket-hilts that were taken as spoils of that battle by the victors, this typology emerged. The anecdote is indeed spurious, as are many of the early typological justifications put forth with dismaying easiness by quite a number of those who studied Arms and armour in the 19th. c., but the name, as so many others, stuck, and have survived up to our days, for the desperation of some.

Of course, if one wants to keep a bit of seriousness in the study, has to know the facts and discard the adornments, but, in this case, as many others, I can't help but thinking that, as the Italians say, "se non è vero, è ben trovato" (loosely, "Even if it's not true, it is well conceived").

A couple pics, from around the web:

[Emanuel]

Hello Mark,
The dussäge at the museum was indeed also described as a "SInclair Sword" and a short synopsys was given about his ficticious incursion through Norway into Sweden.
Thanks for the pics, the second/bottom one is closest to what I saw, but still not the same. The one at the ROM was much more curved and the yelman was very well defined. The blade was somewhat narrower as well, and -not too sure- but it seemed a bit thin as well.
I will go again in June and take pictures to post.
Emanuel

[Joe]

Something like this?

[Jim McDougall]

Beautifully written and outstanding information Marc!!!
Joe, fantastic example!
Now here lies the true origins of the Scottish basket hilt, and interestingly there are examples with curved blades, usually termed 'turcael' referring to the curved Turkish blades often seen by Highlander mercenaries in Eastern Europe. Naturally there remains considerable debate on the basket hilt origin issue, but the highly developed hilts on the guards of the so called 'Sinclair' sabres from Northern Europe seem the most plausible ancestor in my opinion.

From what I understand , the term dusagge (dusack) although originally applied to very pedestrian peasant swords, and training swords.As fencing with these developed, the term began to be applied to various heavy, short sabres and as noted cutlasses.

It would appear that terminology applied locally to certain weapons can often be expanded colloquially to a wider range of similar type weapons as the terms diffuse via trade, transliteration and travellers. Because of this it can often become maddening to try to categorize a particular weapon to a specific term as the same weapon may be referred to by very different terms in various places where found. I hope I said that right !

Best regards,
Jim

[Emanuel]

Good one Joe!
It looks just like what I saw. Jim, the turcael would most certainly be kilij sabres no? If so this presents a clear path in my mind of the way in which Islamic and Persian curved sabres became the unidentified scimitar of western European literature and art. I always wanted to see actual examples being seen and eventually duplicated by Europeans...before Napoleon and Brits popularized Mamluk sabres, and eastern European Hussars and misc cavalry units introduced their own forms.

It's quite amazing to see this kilif form being adopted and further adapted to European uses and shapes.

Many thanks all of you!
Emanuel

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Emanuel,
The term 'turcael' was of course a Gaelic derived term as noted, thus used in description for 'curved blade' in Scotland, from what I understand. The term 'kilij' is primarily a general term for sabre as applied in Turkish regions.

The term 'scimitar' is a general term, as you note, used in literature to describe curved sabres, typically referring to Islamic forms, and does not specifically refer to an exact weapon. This term apparantly derived from a transliteration and is generally thought to have applied to the shamshir.

The sabres of the nomadic steppes tribes, the Turks, and of course Muslim forces in general, have certainly influenced the development of these forms in the west. During the crusades, various forms of falchion arose in France and England, and during the 15th-16th centuries the sabre developed in Eastern Europe from the sabres of the Turks. By the 18th century, sabres and flamboyant uniforms of cavalry in Western Europe derived from those of Eastern Europe.

It is interesting to see English sabres of late 18th and early 19th century that show influence of the fully parabolic curve of the shamshir and the use of the yelman at the point of the blade from Turkish kilij and the Polish/Hungarian sabres. Similar applications are seen in French and German sabres, and as you have noted, the influence of the Mamluk sabres from the Egyptian campaigns.

There has been a great deal written about the development of the sabre, which is a matter of considerable contention, but the views I have noted here as I understand seem to be generally accepted. I very much agree that it is fascinating to see the developing influences in these weapons, which reflect the development of history itself through the centuries and many cultures.

Your observations are right on target!!! and I like the way you think!
Careful or you'll get obsessed by this stuff like me

All the best,
Jim

[Joe]

Personally Jim, I've always viewed the origin for the raised back-ridge on Western single-edged swords as being a combination of independent specialization, and popularization of the Turkish (and surrounding regions') sword-making styles. Which may explain why the yelman was sharpened, but most dorsal ridges on Western European swords were not.

But then, who knows?

Anyway, here's a little food for thought: attached are a few images, showing the "Eastern concepts" on European swords.

The first is Polish 18th(?) century.
The second is German dated to 1550.
And the third is an English "scimitar" from the 19th century.