Persian made blade...but where did it see service??

CharlesS · 5th June 2008, 02:49 PM

Here is a nice example of a Persian made blade, almost straight, but not quite, and from good(but not the best) wootz. Some refer to this type as a "trade blade".

While the blade is of quality and of interest, I am more intrigued by the hilt, and wonder who(ethnically) may have used this sword. The hilt has both Persian and Ottoman characteristics. I wonder if the inscription on the guard is in Arabic or Farsi...that may go a long ways towards answering the question....can anyone make it out??

Comments and opinions are welcomed.

Tim Simmons · 5th June 2008, 05:13 PM

I have the cloak to go with this. Silk, gold and silver brocade.

Dom · 5th June 2008, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlesS

I wonder if the inscription on the guard is in Arabic or Farsi...that may go a long ways towards answering the question....can anyone make it out??

to have a chance to read the inscription on the guard
- no flash
- macro focus
to read, because the translation it's an other story

translation of the inscription on the blade, religious invocation
"no power nor strength except in Allah"

à +

Dom

CharlesS · 8th June 2008, 08:32 PM

Here are some better pics of the guard without flash, so hopefully that will help in translation.

Obviously the script is Arabic, but is the text Arabic or Farsi??

Dom · 9th June 2008, 02:33 PM

Hi Charles

definitively the text is Arabic,
positively in Farsi, because each side has as mention ??? Ali and ??? Mohamed
the Chiites are usual* to use the mention of "Ali" even associated with the name of Mohamed

à +

Dom

*Ali is much more popular with Chiites than with Sunnites

CharlesS · 10th June 2008, 07:13 PM

Thanks for your help, Dom.

Jens Nordlunde · 10th June 2008, 09:38 PM

Is the blade Syrian, as I believe it to be?

Jim McDougall · 10th June 2008, 10:49 PM

That is a very astute observation Jens, as these 'trade' blades did indeed appear often in the Syrian mounts (as seen in the hilt in my avatar) as well as many other swords in Arabia, the Caucusus, India and many other regions which received these exports. These began being produced around the late 18th and early 19th c. in Khorassan, Qazvin and Isfahan, and continued even later .

It is my impression from the rather straight type blade, and the fact that this does appear to be one of these Persian trade blades, this is likely an Arab Bedouin sword and quite likely imported via Baghdad rather than Damascus. The Arabs preferred Persian blades and swords, and the hilt on this sword is distinctly of Persian shamshir style.

Oliver Pinchot wrote a magnificent paper on the topic of these blades titled "The Persian Shamshir:and the Sign of Assad Allah" ("Arms Collecting", Vol.40, #1, February 2002) and on p.8 he notes, "...Persian damask blades were still greatly prized among Bedouin Arabs a century later (from 1811) . Elgood mentions the unification of the Aniza tribes under the Amir of Rwala, during the late 19th and early 20th centuries, who traded at Damscus and Baghdad".

This blade appears to have a very good quality watered blade (and I would defer to those he more well versed in metallurgy) but still carrying the devotional panel on one side of the blade and the stylized lion pictogram characteristic of these trade blades.

Best regards,
Jim

8th June 2008, 08:32 PM	#4
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,854	Here are some better pics of the guard without flash, so hopefully that will help in translation. Obviously the script is Arabic, but is the text Arabic or Farsi?? Attached Images

9th June 2008, 02:33 PM	#5
Dom Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Paris (FR*) Cairo (EG) Posts: 1,142	Hi Charles definitively the text is Arabic, positively in Farsi, because each side has as mention ??? Ali and ??? Mohamed the Chiites are usual* to use the mention of "Ali" even associated with the name of Mohamed à + Dom *Ali is much more popular with Chiites than with Sunnites Attached Images

5th June 2008, 02:49 PM	#1
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,854	Persian made blade...but where did it see service?? Here is a nice example of a Persian made blade, almost straight, but not quite, and from good(but not the best) wootz. Some refer to this type as a "trade blade". While the blade is of quality and of interest, I am more intrigued by the hilt, and wonder who(ethnically) may have used this sword. The hilt has both Persian and Ottoman characteristics. I wonder if the inscription on the guard is in Arabic or Farsi...that may go a long ways towards answering the question....can anyone make it out?? Comments and opinions are welcomed. Attached Images

5th June 2008, 05:13 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	I have the cloak to go with this. Silk, gold and silver brocade.

10th June 2008, 07:13 PM	#6
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,854	Thanks for your help, Dom.

10th June 2008, 09:38 PM	#7
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Is the blade Syrian, as I believe it to be?

10th June 2008, 10:49 PM	#8
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,193	That is a very astute observation Jens, as these 'trade' blades did indeed appear often in the Syrian mounts (as seen in the hilt in my avatar) as well as many other swords in Arabia, the Caucusus, India and many other regions which received these exports. These began being produced around the late 18th and early 19th c. in Khorassan, Qazvin and Isfahan, and continued even later . It is my impression from the rather straight type blade, and the fact that this does appear to be one of these Persian trade blades, this is likely an Arab Bedouin sword and quite likely imported via Baghdad rather than Damascus. The Arabs preferred Persian blades and swords, and the hilt on this sword is distinctly of Persian shamshir style. Oliver Pinchot wrote a magnificent paper on the topic of these blades titled "The Persian Shamshir:and the Sign of Assad Allah" ("Arms Collecting", Vol.40, #1, February 2002) and on p.8 he notes, "...Persian damask blades were still greatly prized among Bedouin Arabs a century later (from 1811) . Elgood mentions the unification of the Aniza tribes under the Amir of Rwala, during the late 19th and early 20th centuries, who traded at Damscus and Baghdad". This blade appears to have a very good quality watered blade (and I would defer to those he more well versed in metallurgy) but still carrying the devotional panel on one side of the blade and the stylized lion pictogram characteristic of these trade blades. Best regards, Jim