Yataghan

ariel · 20th February 2005, 06:13 AM

Just ended.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...e=STRK:MEWA:IT

It is a very nice Yataghan, no doubt. According to the seller, it is in fact Austro-Hungarian . I was totally unaware that some Austro-Hungarian units carried Yataghans. Anybody has better information?

erlikhan · 20th February 2005, 10:18 AM

Austro Hungarian army had some Bosnian legions , and they used some exotic accessories, but i can see no spesific nuance which can be related to Austria or even Bosna. Just a beautiful pure Turkish style yataghan. It belonged to somebody of course, and its owner could be a soldier from those legions too, who knows, but nothing special to prove it, as far as I see. (But perhaps the inscription can reveal something to deny me).Its price climbed a bit high for an unscabbarded yataghan,making me stay away. This Austro-Hungarian story had a share in its price i guess.

tom hyle · 20th February 2005, 01:05 PM

The story seems bizarre; I'm curious as to any evidence/provenence/source of attribution; to me also this looks like a rather ornate hand made traditional yatagan; it certainly ian't a mass produced piece we'd expect to see associated with an European military unit....In reference to yatagans in Hungary I have the term karakalak or karakulak. The ones I've seen had integral forged bolsters, unwrapped flat tangs, and wider tips than common on Turkish yatagans.

Battara · 20th February 2005, 02:01 PM

I doubt Austro-Hungarian. However, under Ottoman rule the Bosnians and the region were issued yataghans, especially as part of the Janissary corps.

Unique forte design. The rest is nice and Ottoman.

tom hyle · 20th February 2005, 03:03 PM

Again I'd just like to say that this does not look to me like anything that was issued to anyone anywhere; this looks like a nice privately bought or possibly gift/presentation piece. It ain't no field grade military piece that was handed out in stacks.

Jim McDougall · 20th February 2005, 05:34 PM

Ariel,
While the seller is correct in degree by the statement that there were components of Austro-Hungary's forces who did use some forms of the yataghan, the obvious presence of the tuhgra on the blade would preclude that including this Ottoman example. The components I refer to were the 'pandours' who were irregular mercenary forces assembled from frontier guards and private militia type troops that came from regions in Croatia primarily, as well as Slovenian.
While assemblages of Balkan troops from widely varying regions comprised these pandour units, and the possibility of certain Balkan form of yataghans is plausible, it should be noted that those participating typically fought against Ottoman forces, and use of an Ottoman yataghan, even captured, would seem unlikely. The Balkan yataghan forms are also noticeably different in the hilts, which typically have a studded appearance.

The often referenced 'yataghan' sidearms typically carried by pandours were of the hunting sword type (couteau de chasse) and had a 'karabela' type hilt in profile which often had a degree of cleft pommel, which presumably led to the yataghan descriptive term.

A very nice example Ottoman yataghan, which however is unlikely to have anything to do with Austro-Hungarian forces, and especially as Tom has noted, certainly not a weapon issued in numbers to rank and file.

Best regards,
Jim

20th February 2005, 06:13 AM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Yataghan Just ended. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...e=STRK:MEWA:IT It is a very nice Yataghan, no doubt. According to the seller, it is in fact Austro-Hungarian . I was totally unaware that some Austro-Hungarian units carried Yataghans. Anybody has better information?

20th February 2005, 10:18 AM	#2
erlikhan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Istanbul Posts: 452	Austro Hungarian army had some Bosnian legions , and they used some exotic accessories, but i can see no spesific nuance which can be related to Austria or even Bosna. Just a beautiful pure Turkish style yataghan. It belonged to somebody of course, and its owner could be a soldier from those legions too, who knows, but nothing special to prove it, as far as I see. (But perhaps the inscription can reveal something to deny me).Its price climbed a bit high for an unscabbarded yataghan,making me stay away. This Austro-Hungarian story had a share in its price i guess. Last edited by erlikhan; 20th February 2005 at 11:10 AM.

20th February 2005, 01:05 PM	#3
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	The story seems bizarre; I'm curious as to any evidence/provenence/source of attribution; to me also this looks like a rather ornate hand made traditional yatagan; it certainly ian't a mass produced piece we'd expect to see associated with an European military unit....In reference to yatagans in Hungary I have the term karakalak or karakulak. The ones I've seen had integral forged bolsters, unwrapped flat tangs, and wider tips than common on Turkish yatagans. Last edited by tom hyle; 20th February 2005 at 03:01 PM.

20th February 2005, 02:01 PM	#4
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	I doubt Austro-Hungarian. However, under Ottoman rule the Bosnians and the region were issued yataghans, especially as part of the Janissary corps. Unique forte design. The rest is nice and Ottoman.

20th February 2005, 03:03 PM	#5
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	Again I'd just like to say that this does not look to me like anything that was issued to anyone anywhere; this looks like a nice privately bought or possibly gift/presentation piece. It ain't no field grade military piece that was handed out in stacks.

20th February 2005, 05:34 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,193	Ariel, While the seller is correct in degree by the statement that there were components of Austro-Hungary's forces who did use some forms of the yataghan, the obvious presence of the tuhgra on the blade would preclude that including this Ottoman example. The components I refer to were the 'pandours' who were irregular mercenary forces assembled from frontier guards and private militia type troops that came from regions in Croatia primarily, as well as Slovenian. While assemblages of Balkan troops from widely varying regions comprised these pandour units, and the possibility of certain Balkan form of yataghans is plausible, it should be noted that those participating typically fought against Ottoman forces, and use of an Ottoman yataghan, even captured, would seem unlikely. The Balkan yataghan forms are also noticeably different in the hilts, which typically have a studded appearance. The often referenced 'yataghan' sidearms typically carried by pandours were of the hunting sword type (couteau de chasse) and had a 'karabela' type hilt in profile which often had a degree of cleft pommel, which presumably led to the yataghan descriptive term. A very nice example Ottoman yataghan, which however is unlikely to have anything to do with Austro-Hungarian forces, and especially as Tom has noted, certainly not a weapon issued in numbers to rank and file. Best regards, Jim