Powder Horn Questions

RobT · 6th October 2016, 03:01 AM

Hi All,

I picked up this powder horn a while back at a flea market. I suspect that it may be from Nepal but this is based on the most flimsy of evidence (I bought a Nepalese hansiya from the same dealer). The dealer also said that he had gotten some old Nepalese manuscripts from the source that supplied the powder horn and the hansiya. The horn doesn't look like it's from the US or Western Europe and doesn't look like any of the African or Middle East ones I have seen either. It doesn't look like cow horn either. Also, does anyone know what the spout plug and the carry strap would look like? The horn measures about 11.25" (28.5cm) from tip to end of spout (measured in a straight line. The incised decoration at the base of the horn is very simple and rather roughly done. The tip of the horn has a diamond and chevron motif at the very end and above that is a double line X with double lines above and below it. The lathe turned, wooden spout is about 2.25" long and is inserted into a wooden plug that closes off the end of the horn. The plug is held in place with two small iron nails. The suspension rings are iron and are held on to the horn by two iron rods that go completely through the horn. On one end, the rods are looped over to hold the suspension rings and, on the other end, they are bent over to hold them onto the horn. The rod at the base of the horn has a small rectangle of iron below the looped suspension ring holder. I would appreciate any information given.

Sincerely,
RobT

Ian · 6th October 2016, 05:30 AM

Hi Rob:

Could be sheep or goat horn, which would fit with an Asian sub-Continent origin (as well as any number of other places).

Ian

BANDOOK · 6th October 2016, 10:23 AM

I HAVE SIMILAR TYPE OF POWDER FLASKS FROM THAILAND,KAREN HILL TRIBE
CHEERS

kahnjar1 · 6th October 2016, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BANDOOK

I HAVE SIMILAR TYPE OF POWDER FLASKS FROM THAILAND,KAREN HILL TRIBE
CHEERS

Can we please see them to compare with the subject horn?

RobT · 7th October 2016, 12:17 AM

Hi All & Thanks for the Responses,

Ian, at least I'm somewhat in the ball park. Maybe one of the taxonomist members of the forum could ID the type of sheep or goat.
Bandook, a Karen origin certainly seems plausible. I'll be searching the net to see if I can come up with anything. I am especially interested in what the spout plug & sling look like.
Khanjar, thanks for your suggestion to Bandook. Pictures of his items plus any ethnographic photos that might be available will be greatly appreciated.

Sincerely,
RobT

rickystl · 7th October 2016, 02:12 AM

Looks like a ram's horn. The decoration on the tip.......possibly South African ??

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 7th October 2016, 09:45 PM

Looks like water-buffalo...with leather over.

RobT · 8th October 2016, 02:04 AM

Hi All,

rickystl, ram's horn it may be but all the African powder horns I have seen (admittedly not many) seem to have the same type of openings as those from the USA (fill plug at the base of the horn with the horn tip cut off and capped as the pour spout). On my horn, the tip has been decorated but not cut off so the spout at the base of the horn serves for both filling and pouring.
Ibrahim al Balooshi, my horn has no leather covering. It is a dark brown to russet colored horn worn smooth by many years of use. The tactile feel is very much akin to the feel of an old iwisa.

Sincerely,
RobT

rickystl · 8th October 2016, 03:49 PM

Hi RobT.

I believe Ibrahiim is right on this being water buffalo horn. So it would seem the horn originated from somewhere the animal resides. Which does not narrow down the origin much LOL

The carving on the tip of the horn looks some what familiar. But I just can't place it. Seems like I've seen this style of carving on wood knife scabbards (?). Maybe another Forum member will reconize the carving style which may offer a better origin possibility.
It is a really neat looking horn I would not mind having in my collection. Great find, especially from a flea market. Maybe from the Philipines or Southeast Asia ?

As you mention, using the base of the horn for both fill and charging is less commonly seen, as on this example. However, the design goes back to the earliest periods. Below are a couple of pics of a European style horn utilizing the base of the horn for both functions. This is a contemporary made horn (sorry Moderator) copied from various original wood carvings of the Swiss/Landsknechts for a re-enactor. But it does illustrate the use of using the base of the horn only for both purposes.

Again, very nice and interesting horn you have. Hope another Forum member can better narrow down it's origin.

Rick

RobT · 22nd October 2016, 04:28 PM

Hi All,
Thanks for all your input. I'll keep looking.
Sincerely,
RobT

Blacksmith · 22nd October 2016, 08:36 PM

Water Buffalo horn, no doubt. And yes, nepalese. Theres almost similar one at the national Museum in Kathmandu.

RobT · 3rd November 2016, 02:48 AM

Blacksmith,

Thanks for the info. Do you happen to know of any website with pictures of the powder horn on it?

Sincerely,
RobT

6th October 2016, 03:01 AM	#1
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 536	Powder Horn Questions Hi All, I picked up this powder horn a while back at a flea market. I suspect that it may be from Nepal but this is based on the most flimsy of evidence (I bought a Nepalese hansiya from the same dealer). The dealer also said that he had gotten some old Nepalese manuscripts from the source that supplied the powder horn and the hansiya. The horn doesn't look like it's from the US or Western Europe and doesn't look like any of the African or Middle East ones I have seen either. It doesn't look like cow horn either. Also, does anyone know what the spout plug and the carry strap would look like? The horn measures about 11.25" (28.5cm) from tip to end of spout (measured in a straight line. The incised decoration at the base of the horn is very simple and rather roughly done. The tip of the horn has a diamond and chevron motif at the very end and above that is a double line X with double lines above and below it. The lathe turned, wooden spout is about 2.25" long and is inserted into a wooden plug that closes off the end of the horn. The plug is held in place with two small iron nails. The suspension rings are iron and are held on to the horn by two iron rods that go completely through the horn. On one end, the rods are looped over to hold the suspension rings and, on the other end, they are bent over to hold them onto the horn. The rod at the base of the horn has a small rectangle of iron below the looped suspension ring holder. I would appreciate any information given. Sincerely, RobT Attached Images

7th October 2016, 12:17 AM	#5
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 536	Thanks Hi All & Thanks for the Responses, Ian, at least I'm somewhat in the ball park. Maybe one of the taxonomist members of the forum could ID the type of sheep or goat. Bandook, a Karen origin certainly seems plausible. I'll be searching the net to see if I can come up with anything. I am especially interested in what the spout plug & sling look like. Khanjar, thanks for your suggestion to Bandook. Pictures of his items plus any ethnographic photos that might be available will be greatly appreciated. Sincerely, RobT

7th October 2016, 09:45 PM	#7
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Looks like water-buffalo...with leather over. Attached Images

8th October 2016, 02:04 AM	#8
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 536	Thanks for More Responses Hi All, rickystl, ram's horn it may be but all the African powder horns I have seen (admittedly not many) seem to have the same type of openings as those from the USA (fill plug at the base of the horn with the horn tip cut off and capped as the pour spout). On my horn, the tip has been decorated but not cut off so the spout at the base of the horn serves for both filling and pouring. Ibrahim al Balooshi, my horn has no leather covering. It is a dark brown to russet colored horn worn smooth by many years of use. The tactile feel is very much akin to the feel of an old iwisa. Sincerely, RobT

8th October 2016, 03:49 PM	#9
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,630	Hi RobT. I believe Ibrahiim is right on this being water buffalo horn. So it would seem the horn originated from somewhere the animal resides. Which does not narrow down the origin much LOL The carving on the tip of the horn looks some what familiar. But I just can't place it. Seems like I've seen this style of carving on wood knife scabbards (?). Maybe another Forum member will reconize the carving style which may offer a better origin possibility. It is a really neat looking horn I would not mind having in my collection. Great find, especially from a flea market. Maybe from the Philipines or Southeast Asia ? As you mention, using the base of the horn for both fill and charging is less commonly seen, as on this example. However, the design goes back to the earliest periods. Below are a couple of pics of a European style horn utilizing the base of the horn for both functions. This is a contemporary made horn (sorry Moderator) copied from various original wood carvings of the Swiss/Landsknechts for a re-enactor. But it does illustrate the use of using the base of the horn only for both purposes. Again, very nice and interesting horn you have. Hope another Forum member can better narrow down it's origin. Rick Attached Images

6th October 2016, 05:30 AM	#2
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,363	Hi Rob: Could be sheep or goat horn, which would fit with an Asian sub-Continent origin (as well as any number of other places). Ian

6th October 2016, 10:23 AM	#3
BANDOOK Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: AUCKLAND,NEW ZEALAND Posts: 624	I HAVE SIMILAR TYPE OF POWDER FLASKS FROM THAILAND,KAREN HILL TRIBE CHEERS

7th October 2016, 02:12 AM	#6
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,630	Looks like a ram's horn. The decoration on the tip.......possibly South African ??

22nd October 2016, 04:28 PM	#10
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 536	Thanks For the Input Hi All, Thanks for all your input. I'll keep looking. Sincerely, RobT

22nd October 2016, 08:36 PM	#11
Blacksmith Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Finland Posts: 98	Water Buffalo horn, no doubt. And yes, nepalese. Theres almost similar one at the national Museum in Kathmandu.

3rd November 2016, 02:48 AM	#12
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 536	Thanks For the Info Blacksmith, Thanks for the info. Do you happen to know of any website with pictures of the powder horn on it? Sincerely, RobT