Goals for weapons types

Federico · 16th November 2005, 10:53 PM

Well I figured Id start a new post, so we can try and coordinate our contributions. I know for a good portion of us, our collections are slanted one way or the other, eg. mostly Moro swords or mostly Visayan swords, and it may difficult to get a true representation of all the diversity that is the sandata. With that in mind, the actual items exhibited will be key in determining what aspects of the Philippines should be addressed in the article that will accompany the exhibits. Realistically I dont want to write on and on about a group or sword that will not be displayed.

Given the diversity and the limits of our collections, I propose a simple regionalization of weaponry via the 3 major land areas of PI, Northern, Central, and Southern. From there we can try to develop sub-sets as best we can (eg. lumad vs moro, christian vs non christian, western visayas vs eastern visayas, etc...) as we determine the actual pieces to be contributed. However, I would like to (for the purposes of the article) stay as general as possible, dividing only as pieces are available (eg. if all the central region pieces are from Panay, then no need to divide Visayas further).

Anyways, given the difficulty of and time constraints of photographing and cataloguing our pieces, I propose that as quickly as possible we at least set up a interim list of who is contributing what, so that we can proceed to fill in the gaps and not have too much overlap (eg. 20 krises and only 1 tenegre).

As for my own contributions so far on the list I have noticed Luzon and western Visayas is a little scanty. I can contribute in this regards a Bontoc head axe, a binakoko bolo (luzon), a katipunan era d-guard bolo, two tenegres (western visaya), another garab (though do we really need more than one), a generic crescent bladed Tagalog bolo, and a miscellaneous dragon headed Panay tenegre. I have the feeling the Moro pieces will be well covered, and can contribute as gaps appear. If need be, I do have other more contemporary bolo, but it would be nice to stay at with older pieces (WWII or older though if we could do all Span am war and older that would be neat).

As for support pieces, who can contribute what? There was mention of armor, but is this confirmed? Most of my period pics are either already digital or in books, I can attempt to scan some of the pics from the books, but understandably they are very much in favor of Moro pics. Are we considering shields? Textiles? Etc...

Mark · 17th November 2005, 01:18 AM

Remember that you have to get permission from the copyright holder before you use pictures from a book. It is not hard, but it is best to identify those early so that the publisher can be contacted about it right away to allow maximum time for them to respond.

Support pieces (as I understand it) are mainly for visual impact, but should still keep to the theme. A nice Moro cuirass, for example, could be impressive, as could a shield. My feeling is to keep it close to the martial theme (for example, not use a beautiful piece of pottery, unless maybe it has a nice painting of a battle on it or something).

I have a Burmese lacquered box that I was considering, but there are no weapons visible among all the scenes decorating it, so it wouldn't add much other than being pretty and showing some unrelated craft from Burma. On the other hand, one or both of my Burmese warrior marionettes might work.

Antonio Cejunior · 17th November 2005, 05:04 AM

Hi again Federico,

I just replied to your post on the other thread.
Hope that helps. Perhpas we should stay in only one thread, what do you say?

Like I said, we must see what collectors have to make a choice, the older the better. That means showing what they are willing to contribute.

Mark:
It was me who mentioned the materials and shields. The idea was to provide a cultural perspective in which the culture of the swords serves as a background. I don't think it needs to be a martial perspective.
But I would suggest we concentrate on weapons as first priority and on the cultural background on the second priority. But it does not mean you should refrain from sending them.

Copyright. We at the Museum can ask for the copyright on everyone's behalf if a photo, email and publishing house address is provided to us along with the book title, ISBN and page number. This will be a better way.

Best regards,
Logging off for now.

Antonio

Rick · 17th November 2005, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antonio Cejunior

Hi again Federico,

I just replied to your post on the other thread.
Hope that helps. Perhpas we should stay in only one thread, what do you say?

Like I said, we must see what collectors have to make a choice, the older the better. That means showing what they are willing to contribute.

Mark:
It was me who mentioned the materials and shields. The idea was to provide a cultural perspective in which the culture of the swords serves as a background. I don't think it needs to be a martial perspective.
But I would suggest we concentrate on weapons as first priority and on the cultural background on the second priority. But it does not mean you should refrain from sending them.

Copyright. We at the Museum can ask for the copyright on everyone's behalf if a photo, email and publishing house address is provided to us along with the book title, ISBN and page number. This will be a better way.

Best regards,
Logging off for now.

Antonio

I would suggest getting in touch with :
THE NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC MAGAZINE

They have on microfilm a copy of :
Volume 24 XXIV Number 11
November 1913

This issue has an article which covers most of the main tribes with pictures of each .

The article is :
THE NON CHRISTIAN PEOPLES OF THE PHILIPPINE ISLANDS

This is available as a CD ROM set called THE COMPLETE NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC ; pictures can be downloaded and printed from a registered copy of this set.

Hope this helps .

Rick

Antonio Cejunior · 17th November 2005, 10:08 PM

Thanks Rick.
I think someone is already taking care of this, although it would be wonderful if you could get this photocopied and mailed to me. I'll send you my address by email later on, before I fall asleep

Bless ya
Antonio

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

I would suggest getting in touch with :
THE NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC MAGAZINE

They have on microfilm a copy of :
Volume 24 XXIV Number 11
November 1913

This issue has an article which covers most of the main tribes with pictures of each .

The article is :
THE NON CHRISTIAN PEOPLES OF THE PHILIPPINE ISLANDS

This is available as a CD ROM set called THE COMPLETE NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC ; pictures can be downloaded and printed from a registered copy of this set.

Hope this helps .

Rick

Rick · 17th November 2005, 10:46 PM

Antonio , my version of the Geographic collection is not compatible with my new OS unfortunately I cannot print pictures . To do so I would have to go out and purchase a completly new set .

Antonio Cejunior · 17th November 2005, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Antonio , my version of the Geographic collection is not compatible with my new OS unfortunately I cannot print pictures . To do so I would have to go out and purchase a completly new set .

No problem Rick

No worries. Can I purchase the magazine online?

Going to hit the sack. It is 7:00 AM and the Grand Prix is on and I hate the noise.

Best,
Antonio

Rick · 17th November 2005, 11:29 PM

Antonio ,

<deleted>

EDIT

Forget the above Antonio .

I just bought you a hard copy of the original magazine on ebay .
When it arrives I will send it via express air mail to you ; or you can put it on the FEDEX account .
You will most likely need to take the magazine apart to get good scans ; feel free , it's a gift from me to the Museum .

Rick

Federico · 18th November 2005, 02:13 AM

The books from which I can cull images from are all 100 plus years old, and in many cases the publishers are long since defunct (in certain cases the books were self published). I have been told in the past, with books this old copyright would not be as big of a problem, any insight into this?

Mark · 18th November 2005, 03:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Federico

The books from which I can cull images from are all 100 plus years old, and in many cases the publishers are long since defunct (in certain cases the books were self published). I have been told in the past, with books this old copyright would not be as big of a problem, any insight into this?

That is a very complicated question, actually. The term of a copyright is surprisingly long. Right now as I recall it is for the life of the author plus 75 years. However, this standard has varied over time and in different countries (many European countries permitted long terms), and the standards are just now becoming harmonized. In any event, it is quite possible for a 100+ year old work to still have an enforceable copyright. It would reside in the estate of the author, unless he assigned it to someone, like his/her publisher. When the publisher is defunct -- who knows? Legally it would be the publisher's "successor in interest," meaning whomever bought the assets of the company, or the heirs/estate of the owner(s) of the company ... and so on. Tracing the holder of a copyright can be a royal pain.

I will look into the best way to locate obscure copyright holders and get back to you. Though one might assume that, as a practical matter, the older and more obscure the work, the less likely anyone is going to climb out of the woodwork and complain about unauthorized use, in the literal legal sense everything under a certain age has a copyright owner somewhere.

I'll get back with more specifics. In the meantime, please send me the bibliographic information of any books you might pull something from, including country of original publication, and I can see what the copyright term would have been.

Antonio Cejunior · 18th November 2005, 10:08 AM

Heh, good to have lawyers on board

Antonio Cejunior · 18th November 2005, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Antonio ,

<deleted>

EDIT

Forget the above Antonio .

I just bought you a hard copy of the original magazine on ebay .
When it arrives I will send it via express air mail to you ; or you can put it on the FEDEX account .
You will most likely need to take the magazine apart to get good scans ; feel free , it's a gift from me to the Museum .

Rick

That is most kind of you Rick. I'm really embarassed but I can only thank you, although not enough

Bless ya. Check your PM

Antonio

Mark · 4th January 2007, 06:38 PM

bump

16th November 2005, 10:53 PM	#1
Federico Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA Posts: 312	Goals for weapons types Well I figured Id start a new post, so we can try and coordinate our contributions. I know for a good portion of us, our collections are slanted one way or the other, eg. mostly Moro swords or mostly Visayan swords, and it may difficult to get a true representation of all the diversity that is the sandata. With that in mind, the actual items exhibited will be key in determining what aspects of the Philippines should be addressed in the article that will accompany the exhibits. Realistically I dont want to write on and on about a group or sword that will not be displayed. Given the diversity and the limits of our collections, I propose a simple regionalization of weaponry via the 3 major land areas of PI, Northern, Central, and Southern. From there we can try to develop sub-sets as best we can (eg. lumad vs moro, christian vs non christian, western visayas vs eastern visayas, etc...) as we determine the actual pieces to be contributed. However, I would like to (for the purposes of the article) stay as general as possible, dividing only as pieces are available (eg. if all the central region pieces are from Panay, then no need to divide Visayas further). Anyways, given the difficulty of and time constraints of photographing and cataloguing our pieces, I propose that as quickly as possible we at least set up a interim list of who is contributing what, so that we can proceed to fill in the gaps and not have too much overlap (eg. 20 krises and only 1 tenegre). As for my own contributions so far on the list I have noticed Luzon and western Visayas is a little scanty. I can contribute in this regards a Bontoc head axe, a binakoko bolo (luzon), a katipunan era d-guard bolo, two tenegres (western visaya), another garab (though do we really need more than one), a generic crescent bladed Tagalog bolo, and a miscellaneous dragon headed Panay tenegre. I have the feeling the Moro pieces will be well covered, and can contribute as gaps appear. If need be, I do have other more contemporary bolo, but it would be nice to stay at with older pieces (WWII or older though if we could do all Span am war and older that would be neat). As for support pieces, who can contribute what? There was mention of armor, but is this confirmed? Most of my period pics are either already digital or in books, I can attempt to scan some of the pics from the books, but understandably they are very much in favor of Moro pics. Are we considering shields? Textiles? Etc...

17th November 2005, 10:46 PM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,290	Antonio Antonio , my version of the Geographic collection is not compatible with my new OS unfortunately I cannot print pictures . To do so I would have to go out and purchase a completly new set .

17th November 2005, 11:29 PM	#8
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,290	On Ebay Antonio , <deleted> EDIT Forget the above Antonio . I just bought you a hard copy of the original magazine on ebay . When it arrives I will send it via express air mail to you ; or you can put it on the FEDEX account . You will most likely need to take the magazine apart to get good scans ; feel free , it's a gift from me to the Museum . Rick Last edited by Rick; 17th November 2005 at 11:41 PM.

17th November 2005, 01:18 AM	#2
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	Remember that you have to get permission from the copyright holder before you use pictures from a book. It is not hard, but it is best to identify those early so that the publisher can be contacted about it right away to allow maximum time for them to respond. Support pieces (as I understand it) are mainly for visual impact, but should still keep to the theme. A nice Moro cuirass, for example, could be impressive, as could a shield. My feeling is to keep it close to the martial theme (for example, not use a beautiful piece of pottery, unless maybe it has a nice painting of a battle on it or something). I have a Burmese lacquered box that I was considering, but there are no weapons visible among all the scenes decorating it, so it wouldn't add much other than being pretty and showing some unrelated craft from Burma. On the other hand, one or both of my Burmese warrior marionettes might work.

17th November 2005, 05:04 AM	#3
Antonio Cejunior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Macau Posts: 294	Hi again Federico, I just replied to your post on the other thread. Hope that helps. Perhpas we should stay in only one thread, what do you say? Like I said, we must see what collectors have to make a choice, the older the better. That means showing what they are willing to contribute. Mark: It was me who mentioned the materials and shields. The idea was to provide a cultural perspective in which the culture of the swords serves as a background. I don't think it needs to be a martial perspective. But I would suggest we concentrate on weapons as first priority and on the cultural background on the second priority. But it does not mean you should refrain from sending them. Copyright. We at the Museum can ask for the copyright on everyone's behalf if a photo, email and publishing house address is provided to us along with the book title, ISBN and page number. This will be a better way. Best regards, Logging off for now. Antonio

18th November 2005, 02:13 AM	#9
Federico Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA Posts: 312	The books from which I can cull images from are all 100 plus years old, and in many cases the publishers are long since defunct (in certain cases the books were self published). I have been told in the past, with books this old copyright would not be as big of a problem, any insight into this?

18th November 2005, 10:08 AM	#11
Antonio Cejunior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Macau Posts: 294	Heh, good to have lawyers on board

4th January 2007, 06:38 PM	#13
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	bump