16th July 2017, 06:02 PM | #1 |
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An Unusual Curved Flyssa sword
I have always found extremely long, straight flyssas a little awkward to handle and wondered how their use was maximized in combat as they seem to only be stabbing swords. Only the bulbous part of the edge might be able to slash. But, the longer they are, it seems, the more difficult this would become. While this length might be an asset on horse or camel back, I still think it limits the use of the sword.
I see the very long Moroccan nimchas in the much the same manner. There elongated blade seems to limit their use, while their Zanzibar cousins are usually shorter and curved and, for me, more practical. Here is an unusual variation to the nimcha that incorporates a heavy curved blade, otherwise of standard flyssa form. To me it is both more practical and efficient....obviously most flyssa users would disagree based on the number of straight vs. curved examples. So, am I missing something on the flyssa's use in combat, something that makes its profile more practical? Dimensions: Overall length: 31.5in. Blade length: 26.5in. Blade's width at the center: 1in. Blade's thickness at the forte: just over 1/4in. Input is welcomed and appreciated. Last edited by CharlesS; 16th July 2017 at 09:42 PM. |
22nd July 2017, 07:18 AM | #2 | |
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22nd July 2017, 08:24 AM | #3 |
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Hello Charles,
As far as I know, the Flyssa is characterised by the shape of its blade and not by the hilt. So I do not consider the saber in your example to be a Flyssa. Regards, Marius |
22nd July 2017, 08:36 AM | #4 | |
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22nd July 2017, 08:38 AM | #5 |
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Hi All,
I disagree with Marius. It's a flyssa, with a flyssa hilt, flyssa scabbard and flyssa blade (engravings). Yes the curvature is different but the length is a flyssa length. It was just inspired by the so-called weeding swords, the real nimcha. Plus you don't have one type of flyssa blade but at least two, the long and narrow and the large yatagan type... Best, Kubur |
22nd July 2017, 08:43 AM | #6 | |
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22nd July 2017, 08:49 AM | #7 | |
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22nd July 2017, 01:56 PM | #8 | |
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Otherwise, we may end up calling all these "Tulwar". |
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22nd July 2017, 02:44 PM | #9 | |
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So is this sword a nimcha or a flyssa??? |
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22nd July 2017, 05:07 PM | #10 | |
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However, I am of the oppinion we must stirve to improve the current naming system by making it clearer, more consitent and more accurate. Following this idea, I believe a sword is primarilly defined by its blade. So, your example is a "Flyssa with a Nimcha hilt." Now, even without seeing the photo, you could be able to get a pretty good idea of what it is. Why not a "Nimcha witha Flyssa blade?" Because, as I mentioned earlier, the blade is the most important part of a sword, and therefore, the sword should be named after the blade. However, this remains my oppinion. PS: You found a brilliant example! Last edited by mariusgmioc; 22nd July 2017 at 10:38 PM. |
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22nd July 2017, 06:48 PM | #11 | |
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...a lot of members are thinking like you. However IMHO I think the total opposite The people who did these swords didn't care about the style of the swords they cared about effectiveness and beauty, good blade to fight and to show off Most of the Arab, Turkish, African and Indian swords have imported blades Europeans and Persians What do you think about the kaskara, tabouka, Arabian shamshirs, shashka, firangi, kattara? Plus you have yatagans without the typical yatagan curved blades... where do you put them? |
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22nd July 2017, 07:09 PM | #12 | |
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Say Flyssa and you would instantly think at one from examples below, and definitely not at a curved blade sword. When you say Yatagan, what are you thinking at?! Say if a child would ask you to draw a Yatagan. What would you draw?! A straight bladed Yatagan? I don't think so. As with respect to the Yatagans with a straight blade, I would call them exactly: Yatagan with straight blade... but only because in this case I can not find a more accurate way to describe it. But between black and white are a thousand shades of grey... right?! PS: But then... if we can have a "Yatagan with straight blade" based on the same logic we can also have a "Flyssa with curved blade"... and here I am defeated by my own argument. Last edited by mariusgmioc; 22nd July 2017 at 10:42 PM. |
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23rd July 2017, 01:54 AM | #13 | |
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23rd July 2017, 08:24 AM | #14 |
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OMG
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23rd July 2017, 09:51 AM | #15 | |
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23rd July 2017, 10:23 AM | #16 | ||
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Sorry about that, your right, I did not see this. Quote:
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23rd July 2017, 05:10 PM | #17 |
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Hi Estcrh.
Hey! Thanks for posting my Flyssa knife in your Post #4 above. LOL While primarily interested in the guns, every once in a while I see a blade that interests me at the moment. So I purchased it from Artzi. Shown here again with a smaller, straight blade for comparison of size. Charles: That is a really nice looking blade. And the scabbard looks great. Nice piece. Rick |
23rd July 2017, 08:11 PM | #18 |
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...and thanks for posting my two in post 13, saves me the trouble. the curved one has a blade thickness very close to the straight one and is very sharp.
i'd say a 'flyssa' is any blade made and decorated in traditional tribal designs and materials by the ifllissen peoples of north west africa. normally charicterised by decorative brass covering on hilts and traditional geometric engravings and brass inlays on the blade, with distinctive and traditional geometric patterned carved wood scabbards. grip, blade, scabbard. all iflissen = flyssa - whatever shape. nimcha grip, blade, iflissen scabbard= nimcha with an iflissen scabbard nimcha with an iflissan blade and generic european style scabbard is a nimcha with a flyssa blade. and so on ad nauseum. Last edited by kronckew; 23rd July 2017 at 08:26 PM. |
24th July 2017, 09:29 AM | #19 | |
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24th July 2017, 10:05 AM | #20 | |
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well, maybe not an abomination, just a 'marriage' not made in heaven.... i also would have set the blade further back to have the heel supported better. and found a more appropriate scabbard. i'll be kind and assume a european captured it w/o a scabbard, liked it, and used what he had to hand. or some dealer tarted it up willy-nilly since... |
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26th July 2017, 07:05 PM | #21 |
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Well, I would join the side of " authenticity" here.
Algeria and Morocco are next door neighbors, and no man or tribe required a visa to move a bit to the east or two bits to the west. Thus a mix of traditional examples from different localities should not be surprising and, moreover, should be almost expected. Moreover, unlike regulation European swords that had government-dictated construction, including the smallest screw on the handle, those were hand-made, hammered out by tiny provincial or tribal workshops, without any restrictions or written orders from the " Gtreat Above". Suffice it to look at classical nimchas and flissas: I doubt we will ever be able to find two absolutely identical ones. Blacksmiths made what the buyer ordered: configuration, size, decorative elements etc. My 5 cents. |
1st July 2023, 12:53 PM | #22 | |
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Resurrection. Just won this two foot Kaybele/Iflyssan sabre & scabbard. (Billed as an 'Eastern Sword with a well carved scabbard) This one seems to swell at the blade root entry into the guard/grip, perfect for reinforcing the area for a slashing weapon. |
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1st July 2023, 05:19 PM | #23 |
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This was an entertaining thread, one of the countless discussions on the philosophies of edged weapon terminology and proper classification of weapon types. The only reasonable end result was 'it depends'.
It is quite clear that the hilts of these various ethnographic forms are distinctive to certain groups, ethnographically and geographically situated, and diffusion of forms have no boundaries of any kind in these respects. The so called 'flyssa' sword of the Kabyles has always been a conundrum, and it is a relative late comer to ethnographic edged weapons, with its earliest known reference in 1820s, and which seems to have notably diminished in its most familiar form by later in 19th c . (according to LaCoste). One of the most puzzling aspects of the flyssa in its traditional form, is how in the world it was used, as in examples with notably long blades they are terribly balanced, the handle is too small in accord, and the hand is not protected in any way. The only reference to these ever being used is a painting which I believe Ariel observed which depicted one of these in use. As far as I have known, and have been told, these were more a traditional weapon obtained as a kind of rite of passage with young Kabyle men, and the blades had personal embellishments added to the traditional amuletic decoration. While many of these were captured by the French in their campaigns mid 19th c. they were most probably booty from homes rather than taken in any sort of combat. It is not surprising that tribesmen in the Saharan and Maghrebi regions would lend the traditional designs and hilt styling in varying degree to swords that were indeed intended for use in more famliar manner. The range of such diffusion and degrees of variation and styling as noted, had no bounds, and these variant weapons were more pragmatically inclined to expected use. Last edited by Jim McDougall; 1st July 2023 at 07:03 PM. |
5th July 2023, 06:23 PM | #24 |
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It's here. 24 in. Overall, blade 18in. Razor sharp too. Blade is 5mm at the root, distal tapered to point. Chord height at centre of blade to spine is 3 cm. Weight 303g. ex scabbard, 405 with scabbard.
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