Another mystery sword

[Bill M]

This is 21" from tip of scabbard to tip of horn. Scabbard and hilt seem well made. Blade is a bit more rough. Some markings on the blade. Anyone have any ideas about what this could be?

[Rick]

With the carving and dropped point blade it looks like it might be Thai.

[Tim Simmons]

Have we not seen these blade marks before? The way the scabbard works is very similar to this central Asian knife, so is the blade when you think about it. The carving is not immediately East Asian? The curved form might be derived from those curved goat horn hilted knives from Persia and central Asia.

[Tim Simmons]

I think the marks were on a Kukri spiral post or something like that.

[Bill M]

Could it be some kind of dha?

Why would they put so much effort into the hilt and scabbard and so little into the blade? Guess they wore it only for show?

[Henk]

Bill, I think you have to look at the direction of Sumatra or Mentawai. In Van Zonneveld you find these hilt form on "Lopah Petawaran" and on "Palitai" from the Mentawai. The steel from the blades was imported from Sumatra because forging was unknown on Mentawai.

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by Henk

Bill, I think you have to look at the direction of Sumatra or Mentawai. In Van Zonneveld you find these hilt form on "Lopah Petawaran" and on "Palitai" from the Mentawai. The steel from the blades was imported from Sumatra because forging was unknown on Mentawai.

Henk,

I have a Mentawai, but it is the kind with the curled "tail." I have never seen this kind of carving on a Mentawai handle. The blade on the Mentawai is poor quality also.

But I am leaning toward it being Thai.

Guess I will file it under "Oddities." I have a few of these!

[eftihis]

Sorry for the off topic question, but Bill, with what camera you made these fasntastic close up photos? I am trying to find a camera with good macro performance, yours is great!

[Ian]

Bill:

While there are some features resembling Thai/Burmese knives (dha/daab), I think this knife is not from mainland SE Asia, nor other areas of SE Asia, but rather from further west and north (although I'm not sure quite from where).

The multifullered blade reminds me more of Tibet/China than Burma/Thailand. The marks stamped on the blade are unknown to me, but they are not Burmese, Thai, or from elsewhere in SE Asia AFAIK.

The downcurved handle is interesting and seems well carved and constructed. The carving on the hilt is rather generic, with vines and flowers that could be Burmese, although I get more of a Chinese feeling, especially with the flowers.

While some Burmese knives have a similar handle profile and carved motifs, that's where the similarity ends. IMO the ferrule is not Burmese, or at least it does not look like anything Burmese or Thai that I have seen. Adjacent to the blade there appears to be a multifaceted disk, then a slightly widening ferrule that carries through the same multifaceted style. It is otherwise undecorated. I would expect to see a cylindrical or bell shaped ferrule on Burmese or Thai work, with at least some scoll work or other design decorating it.

Lastly, the scabbard. If it originally comes with this knife then it too is not Burmese or Thai, who did not use leather over wood construction. The treatment of the leather in almost a "shagreen" manner suggests Chinese or Afghan/Pakistan/etc. work.

Putting this together, I think we need to be looking at China/Central or Southern Asia, or thereabouts. The key may lie in the stampings on the blade, which seem to have a vaguely Cyrillic look to some of them. Others will need to sort that out better for you.

An interesting knife Bill, and one that will continue to draw discussion until someone comes up with a more definitive answer for you. Perhaps Philip has some thoughts. Thanks for showing it.

Ian.

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by eftihis

Sorry for the off topic question, but Bill, with what camera you made these fasntastic close up photos? I am trying to find a camera with good macro performance, yours is great!

I am going to reply in the sticky above on picture resizing so we don't get sidetracked here.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ed=1#post36464

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by Ian

Bill:

While there are some features resembling Thai/Burmese knives (dha/daab), I think this knife is not from mainland SE Asia, nor other areas of SE Asia, but rather from further west and north (although I'm not sure quite from where).

The multifullered blade reminds me more of Tibet/China than Burma/Thailand. The marks stamped on the blade are unknown to me, but they are not Burmese, Thai, or from elsewhere in SE Asia AFAIK.

The downcurved handle is interesting and seems well carved and constructed. The carving on the hilt is rather generic, with vines and flowers that could be Burmese, although I get more of a Chinese feeling, especially with the flowers.

While some Burmese knives have a similar handle profile and carved motifs, that's where the similarity ends. IMO the ferrule is not Burmese, or at least it does not look like anything Burmese or Thai that I have seen. Adjacent to the blade there appears to be a multifaceted disk, then a slightly widening ferrule that carries through the same multifaceted style. It is otherwise undecorated. I would expect to see a cylindrical or bell shaped ferrule on Burmese or Thai work, with at least some scoll work or other design decorating it.

Lastly, the scabbard. If it originally comes with this knife then it too is not Burmese or Thai, who did not use leather over wood construction. The treatment of the leather in almost a "shagreen" manner suggests Chinese or Afghan/Pakistan/etc. work.

Putting this together, I think we need to be looking at China/Central or Southern Asia, or thereabouts. The key may lie in the stampings on the blade, which seem to have a vaguely Cyrillic look to some of them. Others will need to sort that out better for you.

An interesting knife Bill, and one that will continue to draw discussion until someone comes up with a more definitive answer for you. Perhaps Philip has some thoughts. Thanks for showing it.

Ian.

Thanks again Ian,

Will look forward to more input. I will just file it under "Oddities" and not dha.

Bill

[CharlesS]

Blade shape, fullering(though poorly executed) and ferrule say "dha" to me, and the carved hilt is rather odd looking at first glance, but were it ivory, I think most of us would be jumping at a "dha" identity.

The leather covered scabbard is something of a stretch, rather odd.

I think this a contemporary dha knife made as an "eye catcher". The poor quality of the blade, hilt carving and scabbard suggest very little age.

Interesting nonetheless.

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by CharlesS

Blade shape, fullering(though poorly executed) and ferrule say "dha" to me, and the carved hilt is rather odd looking at first glance, but were it ivory, I think most of us would be jumping at a "dha" identity.

The leather covered scabbard is something of a stretch, rather odd.

I think this a contemporary dha knife made as an "eye catcher". The poor quality of the blade, hilt carving and scabbard suggest very little age.

Interesting nonetheless.

Hi Charles,

This makes sense to me. The carving and the scabbard covering -- both suggest a bit of effort. Does not seem to have any great age. Very little wear.

The size is impressive at about 21" from scabbard tip, straight across to handle tip.

I bought it for the handle.

Anyone have an idea about the markings??