unknown knife

[Freddy]

I recently purchased this knife. The seller thought it came from the North Coast of America or even the Artic.

The knife has a thick, straight, double-edged blade. The handle is made out of bone (or ivory). It's a heavy piece, weighing 285 gr.

It came with a wooden sheath, covered in leather.

Total length : 25,5 cm.

Length of blade : 15,5 cm.

Anyone has an idea of its origin ?

[tom hyle]

European sailor?

[katana]

Hi Freddy,
my initial thoughts are that it is, perhaps, North African. The sheath is typical, similar to the Bou Saddi types. The blade looks very similar to the Fairbairn Sykes commando dagger ...issued during WW2 , so could be a rehilted/reworked blade or a native copy.Bearing in mind the conflict in North Africa during WW2 involving the British, it seems likely such daggers could be acquired by the locals.
The handle looks to be bone with resin used to secure the tang.

Looking again at the blade.....could it be a re-worked file ?

Kind Regards David

[ericlaude]

Hi Freddy,
I aggree with katana, for my opinion, it's an Algerian Bou Saadi freestyle, maked with a French or english military blade. The scabbard is typical Bou Saadi style.

[tom hyle]

The scabbard does resemble those, but aren't they sewn up the back edge rather than the spine? Also, the suspension strap is missing; is there a broken end of leather strap sticking out around the throat of the scabbard?
Also, there is usually, If you're talking about what I think you're talking about (kodme), usually a hole that runs all the way thru the handle, thru which is passed a string of leather that heps keep the knife in the sheath (ie. a detente). Is the dot we see such a hole? It seems on the small side.

[tom hyle]

also, the securing of the tang with molten lead is something often seen on folk-level, nonprofessional European and N American work. The Berbers usually try to roll with a flat tang on the kodmes etc.

[Freddy]

David,

I don't think it's a used Wo II commando dagger. I think it's a piece made out of a file . I tried to make a more detailed pic and added this to the thread. Look at the base of the blade.

The blade is quite 'thick', measuring about 6 mm near the base and tapering towards the point.

Some time ago, I posted a 'Bou Saadi' knife on the forum. Although the scabbard looks similar, I found quite some differences (as Tom pointed out). The knife itself is totally different.

Here's the link : http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/printthread.php?t=4107

[laEspadaAncha]

IMHO the flattened, double-edged blade appears distinctly European or American, though the scabbard does appear Bou Saddi in style (at least with regards to its general shape). Definitely wouldn't be the first hybrid marriage of imported blade and local hilt in the region.

[tom hyle]

I think that's a scar from vice jaws at the base of the blade.

[tom hyle]

again, is that a hole that passes through the grip?

[Freddy]

No, Tom. There's no hole in the handle. I can add that the handle is very heavy.

[tom hyle]

Originally Posted by Freddy

No, Tom. There's no hole in the handle. I can add that the handle is very heavy.

Yeah, there's a certain amount of lead in it. I wonder though, if there's anyway to tell CSI style; you never know; if the handle would turn out to be a piece of a whale, even. European sailor anyhow.

[Freddy]

The knife came with other pieces : one small ivory box and a Yu'pik (eskimo ?) mask.

These were brought back from Alaska in the seventies by a French artist (so I was told).

[tom hyle]

The whale's tooth box has on it a counting board of some kind; perhaps to do with gaming. How large is it? Might it be a box for some kind of gambling etc. devices such as dice, etc.? Supposedly the Northern peoples gamble a lot in the winter (not that summer stops the rest of us ) Cool box.

[Tim Simmons]

The plot thickens. Looks like you might have found quite an interesting knife. What do you make of the leather? is it sewn with sinew?

[Sajen]

The mask is great! A very rare object so far I know.

Regards,

Detlef

[Freddy]

Here's a closer view of the stitching on the leather. I don't know exactly what it is.

The whale tooth box measures approx. 9,3 cm. It came together with a tooth (don't know what animal it came from), measuring 9,5 cm.

Here are some additional pics :

[archer]

Hi Freddy, My first thought was and remains especially with the new information. What about an Oyster knife? Used in coastal areas to try open shelled sea food. The Markings are likely, done to legalize the ivory and made to identify a Native craftsman. I think the artifacts are interesting as well.
Steve

[Tim Simmons]

In town at the British Museum looking at the American Arctic and Danish too, dont forget. This knife is a little bit longer but is in common form fashioned from trade iron goods.

When ever I go into town this rather sweat elderly lady always seems to get in the way of my snaps?

[tom hyle]

The pic's a bit fuzzy, but it still looks like sail thread.
The other tooth looks like a whale tooth, too?
The other knife looks a bit like a puuko/leuko.