Central African throwing sick/club?

Tim Simmons · 23rd October 2006, 05:54 PM

Arrived today. Before I go on any more. I must thank our esteemed Belgian member "Freddy" for his gracious help in getting this to me. I think this is a throwing stick/club. As can be seen when next to a heavy knobkerrie, it is made to do a job. There is some impact marks at the tip. To me it is rather heavy to throw, surely it is just a club? Thinking about it a little more and swinging it around maybe you could throw it.

zalmoxis · 23rd October 2006, 06:05 PM

Hi again Tim. I think you have a very rare throwing club used by Ingessana from Sudan. They also have long throwing knifes.

Tim Simmons · 23rd October 2006, 07:55 PM

Thank you and yes I think that is probably the case.
http://southernsudan.prm.ox.ac.uk/details/1944.10.24/
his link is even better.
http://southernsudan.prm.ox.ac.uk/de...1998.344.27.2/

Tim Simmons · 23rd October 2006, 08:28 PM

I have just seen a spelling misstake in the title which is quite amusing. You cannot edit that. If I think back I am sure that in my youth a must have made a pavement pizza

a side walk pizza for those over the water.

Luc LEFEBVRE · 23rd October 2006, 09:54 PM

Nice one Tim, very beautiful and simple shape.
Luc

katana · 24th October 2006, 12:07 AM

Well done Tim.....very interesting 'tool'

I have often wondered if there were differing shaped throwing clubs (other than the short knobkerrie 'type')
I am curios as to the 'point of balance' on this club ...it looks to be 'top heavy' which suggests a throwing action similar to throwing a viking small axe.

As regards the 'sick' in the title........I am reliably informed by the kids that 'sick' tends to mean ....really

Freddy · 27th October 2006, 11:51 AM

As I already told Tim, I think this club is more a dance club. In my opinion from the Lobi people in Burkina Faso (or perhaps a neighbouring tribe).

It could, of course, also be used as a weapon. I think it's heavy enough for that purpose.

I don't think it's a throwing club, though.

As to throwing clubs, I want to show one I have for quite some time. I don't know where it comes from. I think it's a throwing club, but I'm not sure.
Anyway, it has a peculiar form.

Length is 78,5 cm, weight : 300 grs.

Tim Simmons · 27th October 2006, 06:53 PM

Thank you Freddy for coming in to the thread with your valued opinion. I was happy with the dance club designation. But now I have it in my hands and had more time to study it, I am not so sure. The curve carved on one side as in a wing is so frequently seen on boomerangs/throwing woods the world wide. This curved surface has been carefully created. Judder marks are visible on the curve where a blade has been drawn across to shave the surface. They are not file marks, they are absent on the flat side. The curved side is the left hand side of the picture which unfortunately does not show this very well. I would not rule out a dance club. This is just my observation, as a throwing stick it could come from many areas.

Tim Simmons · 29th October 2006, 05:57 PM

This stick is curved on one side and flat on the over also Freddy's stick not too dissimilar.
http://southernsudan.prm.ox.ac.uk/de...884.12.8_c.jpg

Tim Simmons · 1st November 2006, 08:00 AM

I just realised there is this example in Waffen aus Zentral-Afrika, Museum fur Volkerkunde. From the Fali N,E Congo. Quite when a dance stick becomes a club is anyone's guess. I do not know if this club has any throwing properties. The use of a club in dance would be a good method of training basic moves. Many training systems involve synchronized repeated set moves.

Tim Simmons · 22nd November 2006, 10:54 PM

Freddy, perhaps this is a hunting stick from around Mali and other western Sahel areas. I am just not at all sure about the dance stick, it is too functional in finish for me. Also the tip damage gives me the impression it has been thrown or used with some determination.

Tim Simmons · 17th January 2007, 06:38 PM

I got this picture from the Pitt Rivers googling Dinka Artifacts. It is a thumb nail that I have resized. What has happened to this resource of the Pitt Rivers? I can no longer access it apart from thumb nails on google images. Is this the same with everbody? Dance club.

Tim Simmons · 18th January 2007, 07:38 PM

Is anybody else having difficulty with this Pitt Rivers site?

Tim Simmons · 18th January 2007, 07:53 PM

I can get there now. The club is quite a bit different.
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...images%3Fq%3Dd

23rd October 2006, 05:54 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,925	Central African throwing sick/club? Arrived today. Before I go on any more. I must thank our esteemed Belgian member "Freddy" for his gracious help in getting this to me. I think this is a throwing stick/club. As can be seen when next to a heavy knobkerrie, it is made to do a job. There is some impact marks at the tip. To me it is rather heavy to throw, surely it is just a club? Thinking about it a little more and swinging it around maybe you could throw it.

23rd October 2006, 08:28 PM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,925	I have just seen a spelling misstake in the title which is quite amusing. You cannot edit that. If I think back I am sure that in my youth a must have made a pavement pizza a side walk pizza for those over the water. Last edited by Tim Simmons; 23rd October 2006 at 11:04 PM.

27th October 2006, 11:51 AM	#7
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	Dance club ? As I already told Tim, I think this club is more a dance club. In my opinion from the Lobi people in Burkina Faso (or perhaps a neighbouring tribe). It could, of course, also be used as a weapon. I think it's heavy enough for that purpose. I don't think it's a throwing club, though. As to throwing clubs, I want to show one I have for quite some time. I don't know where it comes from. I think it's a throwing club, but I'm not sure. Anyway, it has a peculiar form. Length is 78,5 cm, weight : 300 grs.

1st November 2006, 08:00 AM	#10
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,925	bit more like it I just realised there is this example in Waffen aus Zentral-Afrika, Museum fur Volkerkunde. From the Fali N,E Congo. Quite when a dance stick becomes a club is anyone's guess. I do not know if this club has any throwing properties. The use of a club in dance would be a good method of training basic moves. Many training systems involve synchronized repeated set moves.

17th January 2007, 06:38 PM	#12
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,925	Southern Soudan project Pitt Rivers I got this picture from the Pitt Rivers googling Dinka Artifacts. It is a thumb nail that I have resized. What has happened to this resource of the Pitt Rivers? I can no longer access it apart from thumb nails on google images. Is this the same with everbody? Dance club. Attached Images

23rd October 2006, 06:05 PM	#2
zalmoxis Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: GA USA Posts: 76	Hi again Tim. I think you have a very rare throwing club used by Ingessana from Sudan. They also have long throwing knifes.

23rd October 2006, 07:55 PM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,925	Thank you and yes I think that is probably the case. http://southernsudan.prm.ox.ac.uk/details/1944.10.24/ his link is even better. http://southernsudan.prm.ox.ac.uk/de...1998.344.27.2/

23rd October 2006, 09:54 PM	#5
Luc LEFEBVRE Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: France Posts: 473	Nice one Tim, very beautiful and simple shape. Luc

24th October 2006, 12:07 AM	#6
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Well done Tim.....very interesting 'tool' I have often wondered if there were differing shaped throwing clubs (other than the short knobkerrie 'type') I am curios as to the 'point of balance' on this club ...it looks to be 'top heavy' which suggests a throwing action similar to throwing a viking small axe. As regards the 'sick' in the title........I am reliably informed by the kids that 'sick' tends to mean ....really

27th October 2006, 06:53 PM	#8
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,925	Thank you Freddy for coming in to the thread with your valued opinion. I was happy with the dance club designation. But now I have it in my hands and had more time to study it, I am not so sure. The curve carved on one side as in a wing is so frequently seen on boomerangs/throwing woods the world wide. This curved surface has been carefully created. Judder marks are visible on the curve where a blade has been drawn across to shave the surface. They are not file marks, they are absent on the flat side. The curved side is the left hand side of the picture which unfortunately does not show this very well. I would not rule out a dance club. This is just my observation, as a throwing stick it could come from many areas.

29th October 2006, 05:57 PM	#9
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,925	This stick is curved on one side and flat on the over also Freddy's stick not too dissimilar. http://southernsudan.prm.ox.ac.uk/de...884.12.8_c.jpg

22nd November 2006, 10:54 PM	#11
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,925	Freddy, perhaps this is a hunting stick from around Mali and other western Sahel areas. I am just not at all sure about the dance stick, it is too functional in finish for me. Also the tip damage gives me the impression it has been thrown or used with some determination.

18th January 2007, 07:38 PM	#13
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,925	Soudan project Is anybody else having difficulty with this Pitt Rivers site?

18th January 2007, 07:53 PM	#14
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,925	I can get there now. The club is quite a bit different. http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...images%3Fq%3Dd