Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons
FAQ Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 12th April 2015, 05:29 PM   #1
kronckew
Member
 
kronckew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Room 101, Glos. UK
Posts: 4,178
Default Unknown club for comment

found this on e-pray, no one else bid. looks like a paddle club
that got bit by a shark 28 in.(71.1 cm.) LOA. couldn't find
anything similar here or on line. the pommel end looks familiar
but i can't place it. some small damage at the tip, looks like it
was stored tip down. baldric could have been added anytime.
last owner used it to hang the club. no other details till it arrives...

any ideas?

thanks in advance for your comments...
Attached Images
  
kronckew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th April 2015, 05:48 PM   #2
Tim Simmons
Member
 
Tim Simmons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: What is still UK
Posts: 5,806
Default

I was watching that. I am not sure what to make of it. I hope I might be able to come back with some info latter. It does look rather like a dance club but it does appear to be reasonably heavy as a weapon. I think the fact that it does not reflect age and hand use on the shaft, plus the blunting on the distal end that perhaps it is a dance club/wand. To me it looks like Oceanic work which is a horrible way to say things but we have no better, except South Pacific which could include the Antarctic.
Tim Simmons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th April 2015, 07:17 PM   #3
kronckew
Member
 
kronckew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Room 101, Glos. UK
Posts: 4,178
Default

speculation rife on the penguin wars of antarctica pre contact. sadly the penguins civilization crumbled and they were found in a pre-stone-age society.
their only possessions from the past, a few clubs their legends say were carved by the gods.

anyway, here's a few more pictures: it does sort of look like there may have been a braided fibre binding on the grip in the past...
Attached Images
     
kronckew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th April 2015, 09:51 PM   #4
spiral
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,712
Default

Not my field, but when I saw it something in the back of my head said Solomon islands...

Must have seen something that echo's that in book or hand at some time...
spiral is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th April 2015, 09:45 AM   #5
kronckew
Member
 
kronckew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Room 101, Glos. UK
Posts: 4,178
Default

that was my initial thought so i looked thru vanadoo's series of 'most desired oceanic clubs' series here w/o any luck. did a search on 'solomon' also w/o any success, tho some clubs has a similar pointy end, but stepped where it turned into the grip. i also wondered if it might be amazonian. no luck searching on that either. i'll think of it as 'solomon islands' for the moment.

(or as my antartic penguin club)
kronckew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th April 2015, 07:23 PM   #6
Maurice
Member
 
Maurice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,334
Default

The butt end and oval shaped shaft are carved the same as the paddle shaped war clubs from the Solomon islands.
Maurice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th April 2015, 08:32 PM   #7
kronckew
Member
 
kronckew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Room 101, Glos. UK
Posts: 4,178
Default

ah, well, solomon islands seems most likely then. i wonder how the penguins got one. maybe another rennel islander? two attributed to rennell islands:
Attached Images
  

Last edited by kronckew; 13th April 2015 at 08:50 PM.
kronckew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th April 2015, 08:34 PM   #8
Maurice
Member
 
Maurice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,334
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kronckew
ah, well, solomon islands seems most likely then. i wonder how the penguins got one. maybe another rennel islander?
I only noticed the shaft and butt reminds me of Solomon island clubs, but I don't know if it is one.
Maurice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th April 2015, 08:36 PM   #9
spiral
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,712
Default

Sounds like were all on the same page eg. Solomon islands..

Kronckew Could the mostly sapwood side of a paddle club have been damaged & then later re shaped to how it looks now?

Of course we must never forget the current Seal/Penguin Antarctic wars..

Rape, genocide & the eating of the enemy victims...

linky
spiral is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th April 2015, 08:43 PM   #10
Maurice
Member
 
Maurice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,334
Default

[QUOTE=spiral]

Kronckew Could the mostly sapwood side of a paddle club have been damaged & then later re shaped to how it looks now?
[QUOTE]

I think that this could be likely the case, that it was paddle shaped before the damage, and recarved like this.
Maurice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th April 2015, 04:38 AM   #11
fearn
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,247
Default

Sure that it's not student work from Hawai'i? I've seen some interesting modern art pieces in the stores around there selling native artwork. I asked, and while it's made for tourists, it is locally made by native Hawaiians. It's from high school woodworking classes, and they're trying to break into the art scene and make a few bucks.

F
fearn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th April 2015, 09:30 AM   #12
kronckew
Member
 
kronckew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Room 101, Glos. UK
Posts: 4,178
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by spiral
...

Of course we must never forget the current Seal/Penguin Antarctic wars..

Rape, genocide & the eating of the enemy victims...

linky
horrible. war at it's worst. surely that violates the geneva conventions?

what becomes of the children of such encounters? the children always suffer worst.

p.s. - the reporters did not do their homework. true seals do not have ears & do not 'walk' on their front flippers. sea lions have ears and use their long front flippers for locomotion and holding victims...

i blame the media anti-seal bias. i'm complaining to greenpeace and amnesty international.
kronckew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th April 2015, 04:26 PM   #13
Tim Simmons
Member
 
Tim Simmons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: What is still UK
Posts: 5,806
Default

I cannot see this as an altered paddle. It appears too thick to be a paddle blade and the shaping is too far off a central axis to have been originally a paddle. Measurements and object comparison would be helpful.
Tim Simmons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th April 2015, 11:26 PM   #14
spiral
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,712
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kronckew
sea lions use their long front flippers for locomotion and holding victims...

I blame the media anti-seal bias. i'm complaining to greenpeace and amnesty international.
I could see that...

Personally I think you need to ring prince Charlie & Edward. {using English euphemisms not Yankee ones.. }


Spiral
spiral is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th April 2015, 07:00 PM   #15
kronckew
Member
 
kronckew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Room 101, Glos. UK
Posts: 4,178
Default

aha! - club has arrived.

LOA 28 inches / 71 cm. width of blade roughly 4 in. thickness at blade approx. 1 in. weight 430 grams, just under a pound. tip not as damaged as it looks. sharp edges. definitely a club. it looks OLD, many greasy hand have held this and it looks like it's not been cleaned ever. rough polished surface with smoothed over tool marks under the patina. the two circular spots that i thoght may have been holes are not. they are the stubs of nails, one each side, that have been cut off or broken off and smoothed over. the (dirty) string baldric has sailor's knots, a bowline on the blade and two half hitches with an overhand stopper knot on the bitter end.

we seem to be getting a flood of clubs from the rennel islands recently.
kronckew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th April 2015, 09:32 PM   #16
spiral
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,712
Wink

Quote:
Originally Posted by kronckew
aha! - club has arrived.

LOA 28 inches / 71 cm. width of blade roughly 4 in. thickness at blade approx. 1 in. weight 430 grams, just under a pound. tip not as damaged as it looks. sharp edges. definitely a club. it looks OLD, many greasy hand have held this and it looks like it's not been cleaned ever. rough polished surface with smoothed over tool marks under the patina. the two circular spots that i thoght may have been holes are not. they are the stubs of nails, one each side, that have been cut off or broken off and smoothed over. the (dirty) string baldric has sailor's knots, a bowline on the blade and two half hitches with an overhand stopper knot on the bitter end.

we seem to be getting a flood of clubs from the rennel islands recently.

Stubs of nails... fascinating Kronckew, Clearly second use of the timber then.

This morning, while walking the dog I picked up some larch driftwood on the beach with copper roves in it, & some oak with bronze clench fast nails, both clearly from old ship timbers...

A couple of weeks ago there was some oak & elm with iron handmade nails in it as well. {I throw it all in a friends firewood pile on the way home.. }

What metal are the nails/whatever made from in the club?
spiral is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th April 2015, 09:45 PM   #17
kronckew
Member
 
kronckew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Room 101, Glos. UK
Posts: 4,178
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by spiral
...
What metal are the nails/whatever made from in the club?
they're perfectly round, about 2mm across, what i can see is shiny black, so likely rust blued steel. no sign of red rust or verdigris. some of the black has leeched into the surrounding wood.


p.s. - the bronze nails could have been from one of claudius caesar's galleys heading for/from porchester castle you should retrieve them from the fire ot & sell them as such on a certain auction site we are familiar with. or used to hold the copper bottom on the mary rose. a fortune awaits ye.
kronckew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st April 2015, 07:16 PM   #18
spiral
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,712
Default

mmmmmm


Quote:
Originally Posted by kronckew
p.s. - the bronze nails could have been from one of claudius caesar's galleys heading for/from porchester castle you should retrieve them from the fire ot & sell them as such on a certain auction site we are familiar with. or used to hold the copper bottom on the mary rose. a fortune awaits ye.
That nearly happens I must admit..

Well the copper & bronze goes in a scrap bag , but the iron ones looked very old, & will be hammered straight & added to the box of other interesting old & ancient wrought iron fittings & nails for the day they come in use...{Some have before.} I am sure some are very old & rare! All handmade for country mansion construction or ships.

I wonder if there an old nail forum?

But if there is I could turn up with my box of treasures & either be invited in to sit by the fire with the good old boys to discuss my treasures, or be rejected to a corner for bringing such common tat or even god forbid looked at askew for bringing a rarer higher quality piece better than there pride & joy example along, for show & tell !
spiral is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st April 2015, 07:52 PM   #19
kronckew
Member
 
kronckew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Room 101, Glos. UK
Posts: 4,178
Default

there are a few nail fora. sadly a bunch of wimmen discussing their claw polish.

there is a texas date nail collector's association, for dated railroad nails.

don't see much for UK nails.
kronckew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st April 2015, 08:06 PM   #20
spiral
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,712
Default

I just found the same on the same searches!

Google will spot the market for such websites maybe?

Does no one else collect old nails?

Some of them are amazing!

Id be ok if I collected house bricks or barbed wire... thieve got their society's, forums, websites & collectors...

Actually I do have got one nice rare decorative housebreak, but it holds a drain cover in place to stop leaves blocking the drains at my mothers... I doubt if they'd be impressed with that... Practical though..

But the nails, where's the nail researcher's & experts?
spiral is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:36 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.