NUMBERS STAMPED ON IRISH GUNS

[kahnjar1]

Seeing the two threads by Ken Maddock, with both guns showing Irish numbers reminded me that the Irish Law (see here http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/cp/ireland ) under "Marking and Tracing", requires, and has for many years required that ALL guns including antiques be stamped with individual registration numbers. These numbers do not relate in any way to makers numbers.
Over the years I have seen several similar stampings on ex Irish owned antique guns which had eventually found their way to this country.
Stu

[JamesKelly]

I have what I understand is an Irish blunderbuss, single bridled lock marked Thomas. Bore at least .80 cal (20mm +), 14-7/16" (367mm) barrel. I was told the markings MF 2878 were irish registration marks, and I had thought them from a time when Englishmen were not so keen on Irish men owning weapons. They are made with an older style of stamp.

[kahnjar1]

Without an initial, it would be hard to establish exactly which "Thomas" we are talking about. There are several listed in lists of Gunmakers of the era. Your blunderbus however bears English Proof Marks similar to that posted here at post #5 http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=19534.. The marks in question were in use from 1750 to 1800.
MF2878 is an Irish registration number per their current Laws
Stu

[corrado26]

I have in my collection a flintlock pistol with a calibre of 20mm, which is made by John RIGBY of Dublin. It shows no proofmarks and no Irish control numbers, so that I think it was made during the Irish revolution and the shut down of the proofhouse in the Dublin Castle during the years between 1798 and 1801
corrado26

[kahnjar1]

The Irish Registration numbers appear ONLY on guns OWNED in Ireland, irrespective of where they are actually made. Your Rigby....VERY NICE PIECE....would not have been OWNED in Ireland.

[JamesKelly]

Ken Maddock noted A-N 7421 Irish registration mark would have been for county Antrim, and that each county had its own mark.

So do any of you gentlemen know what county the MF 2878 on my gun would represent?

I suppose I must sadly conclude it was probably not from County Cork, home of the late Willy Brennan

[kahnjar1]

Hi James,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...unty_nicknames
If you look here you will see that County Monaghan has the nickname (among others) of "The Farney". So maybe MF is the mark of County Monaghan??
I see a name on the lock of the Blunderbus. What is that name please.
Regards Stu

[JamesKelly]

The name on the un-bridled lock is THOMAS No initiai, no other marks.
I happen to like the look of this gun more so than most I've seen.

Thanks for the reference. Would be interesting to hear what an Irish man had to say about this.

Been a couple of generations since my family corresponded with anyone in Ireland, and that with a Hamilton lady, I believe, somewhere in Cork.

[Ken Maddock]

Hi James Kelly
MF in Ireland is an unusual combination of letters
I am not sure if all registration was done by county or by police station region.
I looked up the Garda stations in Ireland, garda being the police force,and the only MF I can find is Multyfarnham a town in rural county West Meath, a midlands county.
The Royal Irish Constabulary handed all their stations to the irish Garda when we got our independence. So Perhaps this us where this blunder buss came from
Best regards from Ireland
Ken

[Fernando K]

hello

The blunderbuss Kelly has "private" proofmarks the Tower of London, and crowned two crossed scepters, repeated twice.

Affectionately. Fernando K

[Fernando K]

hello

The only references I found;

Thomas Woodward Handworth, 1813

Joseph Thomas of Levisham, 1817

Fernando K

[CutlassCollector]

Hi,

I had this filed away - it may be of use but unfortunately it does not show an MF. Regards, CC.

Registration of Firearms (Ireland) Act of 22nd August 1843, provided for the granting of licences to the owners of firearms and required the arms to be marked under the superintendency of the County Inspector of the Constabulary Force. The letters of the mark denote the county or the county of the city or town where the arm was registered, and the number indicates the registration as specified in the licence.
AN Antrim
AR Armagh
C-W Carlow
C-N Cavan
C-L Clare
ER Cork
E-C Cork
WR Cork
W-C Cork
D-L Donegal
D-N Down
DU Dublin
F Fermanagh
G Galway
KE Keryy
K-D Kildare
K-K Kilkenny
K-S King's County
LE Leitrim
L-K Limerick
L-Y Londonderry
L-D Longford
L-H Louth
MA Mayo
ME Meath
M-N Monaghan
Q Queen's County
R Roscommon
S Sligo
NR Tipperary
N-T do.
SR do.
S-T do.
T-Y Tyrone
WA Waterford
W-M Westmeath
W-X Wexford
WI Wicklow
C-B Cork Borough
K-B Kilkenny Borough
L-B Limerick Borough
W-B Waterford Borough

[Fernando K]

hi

respect to the punch, so I will instead MF ME? The F has lost the upper horizontal line, and the same may have happened to the bottom.

Affectionately. Fernando K

[Ken Maddock]

CC
thanks a lot for the list you provided
regards
ken

[corrado26]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

The Irish Registration numbers appear ONLY on guns OWNED in Ireland, irrespective of where they are actually made. Your Rigby....VERY NICE PIECE....would not have been OWNED in Ireland.

Thanks to cutlassCollector we now know that the Registration Act was published in 1843, so I think that my pistol is not marked because it was built long before the act of 1843
corrado26

[CutlassCollector]

Hi Ken, you're welcome - nice blunderbuss by the way.

Hi Corrado - As I understand it the registration would have been retroactive so kahnjar1 is probably correct in that your pistol was not owned in Ireland unless it was held back from registration and illegally held.


Regards, CC.

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by corrado26

Thanks to cutlassCollector we now know that the Registration Act was published in 1843, so I think that my pistol is not marked because it was built long before the act of 1843
corrado26

Not necessarily. The blunderbuss shown would also have been made before that date. I believe that your pistol was not owned in Ireland, or it would have been stamped.

[james birch]

Originally Posted by JamesKelly

I have what I understand is an Irish blunderbuss, single bridled lock marked Thomas. Bore at least .80 cal (20mm +), 14-7/16" (367mm) barrel. I was told the markings MF 2878 were irish registration marks, and I had thought them from a time when Englishmen were not so keen on Irish men owning weapons. They are made with an older style of stamp.

has anyone managed to find a reference source for Irish registration
numbers

[adrian]

House of Commons Parliamentary Papers Online.