Question regarding ore used

Jim McDougall · Today, 03:07 PM

Good perspectives Keith, and viably suggested. I dont think we (arms writers and collectors) have ever really fully understood the dynamics of sword production (case in point Hounslow and Shotley).

Most of what has been written seems to have been assumed, and the swords themselves identified as such and such, and often by the blade, which bears marks or stamps of so and so. Then we rush to the compendiums of known markings and compare them finding that so and so worked 'here' in given years so now we 'know' (?) how old the blade is.
Hmmm.

This might work.....by the 'book'.....but now we realize there are far more nuances, facts, and practices that existed in the times we are presuming to understand.

Yes....dealers.......we think that spurious markings, knockoffs etc are modern conventions.......clearly not the case.
I recall asking a guy (dealer) once about a sword.....he wryly asked 'what do you WANT it to be?' In a rare interaction of truth.
While perhaps opening a 'pandoras box', for us who are intent on finding the truth in historical matters, sometimes the unsavory aspects that have been covered in hyperbole, lore and contrived accounts must be endured while being fact checked.

The workers who produced blades were just that, shops producing piece work...not the passionately produced blacksmith work implied and illustrated in movies in lore, where they held up and admired each blade while being forged.

Indeed, the blades were sent from there to the artisans who would mark the blades, often artificers who knew which examples to use to entice the specialized clientele. It would make sense that these individuals (also shops) would be in the trade centers (such as Koln) and that the blades as marked then would be off to cutlers, and mounted in scabbards either by them or other craftsmen.

While perhaps sounding cynical, it is simply working toward an awareness of the dynamics of the actual production of the swords we study in our pursuit of better understanding the history of the weapons themselves. In this case, where, and how they were produced BEFORE they became elements of the historic events in which they were involved.

Today, 03:07 PM	#14
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,363	Good perspectives Keith, and viably suggested. I dont think we (arms writers and collectors) have ever really fully understood the dynamics of sword production (case in point Hounslow and Shotley). Most of what has been written seems to have been assumed, and the swords themselves identified as such and such, and often by the blade, which bears marks or stamps of so and so. Then we rush to the compendiums of known markings and compare them finding that so and so worked 'here' in given years so now we 'know' (?) how old the blade is. Hmmm. This might work.....by the 'book'.....but now we realize there are far more nuances, facts, and practices that existed in the times we are presuming to understand. Yes....dealers.......we think that spurious markings, knockoffs etc are modern conventions.......clearly not the case. I recall asking a guy (dealer) once about a sword.....he wryly asked 'what do you WANT it to be?' In a rare interaction of truth. While perhaps opening a 'pandoras box', for us who are intent on finding the truth in historical matters, sometimes the unsavory aspects that have been covered in hyperbole, lore and contrived accounts must be endured while being fact checked. The workers who produced blades were just that, shops producing piece work...not the passionately produced blacksmith work implied and illustrated in movies in lore, where they held up and admired each blade while being forged. Indeed, the blades were sent from there to the artisans who would mark the blades, often artificers who knew which examples to use to entice the specialized clientele. It would make sense that these individuals (also shops) would be in the trade centers (such as Koln) and that the blades as marked then would be off to cutlers, and mounted in scabbards either by them or other craftsmen. While perhaps sounding cynical, it is simply working toward an awareness of the dynamics of the actual production of the swords we study in our pursuit of better understanding the history of the weapons themselves. In this case, where, and how they were produced BEFORE they became elements of the historic events in which they were involved.